Training, competition, nutrition, recovery, injuries, psychology, and other topics relevant to competing with younger athletes. Also Tim Tebow articles. Formerly the "Over Forty Athlete" blog.
Chip made it clear that he thinks Tim needs to play somewhere. Jaws was emphatic that Tim needs to play somewhere. Common theme.
Here's a thought: if you are Chip Kelly, you know you would only use Tim if Bradford or Sanchez is injured. If that happens, what would you rather Tim have been doing: running your scout squad, or starting in the CFL?
Ed: The answer to the question you posed above is definetely starting in the CFL. If that is indeed what they were thinking then one positive thing we may be able to derive from the release is that they were viewing Tim as 100% quarterback & 0% gadget guy. IMO that is better for all involved.
It was really good to hear Jaws be so complimentary of Tim. Especially the points he made about being impressed with Tim throughout the whole preseason & he showed enough to get another chance in the future somewhere.
The first and third plays that he breaks down are the two plays that all the talking heads at the NFL Network & ESPN use to indicate Tim can't deliver the ball like an NFL QB. Jaws called both plays catchable balls. Granted the first play, he says that Tim could have waited a beat or two for his TE to break free.
Wow. Worth watching every minute of that breakdown by Jaws. Jaws has been one of Tim's most vocal critics over the years; this breakdown of his represents real progress by Tim. Thanks for posting. Ron.
Watched it before work in a hurry. Will not watch it again. After that performance by Tim, I don't need Jaws to tell me how well Tim played. I take little solace in this being made or posted by him. He can go kick a rock and proclaim another HOF career for Colin Kaepernick for all I care. This is nothing but a weird make up sex proposition by Jaws after ripping Tim a new one at every chance possible. Thank you, but I would pass.
That he did it at all comes across to me as a good faith effort to be fair and objective towards Tim; and his history as a strong critic makes his analysis all the more credible. It would go a lot further if he would continue this discussion in his television appearances, though I don't know if he's had the opportunity to yet. At any rate it's one of a couple of good signs that the cadre of establishment NFL experts that have rejected Tim with such hyperbole all these years are perhaps beginning to realize that they've effectively bullied a legitimate player out of a career. Another sign is that the volume of rhetoric on the topic has substantially declined compared to when Tim was released by New England. Aside from a few holdouts that are never going to budge there are a lot fewer cheap shots and opportunistic, click-baiting jabs in response to this latest move; I suspect because it leaves a lot of people bewildered even if they don't want to admit it.
Lastly, the public isn't buying it wholesale like they used to. They watched on Thursday night along with the "experts" and they know what they saw: Tim Tebow clearly and unequivocally handing Matt Barkley his ass on a platter. They were already told not to believe their lying eyes three seasons ago and are not as willing to go along with that this time. So they're not allowing the clowns that are still trying to pimp this situation for cheap laughs to drag them into it. Yesterday I pointed out the tired act unfolding over beneath the First Take circus tent. If you had followed it on twitter you would have seen very few people laughing along with Stephen A Smith's "can't throw" hissy fit. Even if some people want to believe it, they can't.
I am fully aware of that Kathryn. And we have came to this situation because of the over scrutinizing QB that did nothing well and succeeded only because he "believed". And defense. And kicker. Nothing to do with his league best 4th Q QBR or stuff like that. Now we will have a bunch of "experts", Mike Freeman et al. that have said that he is HORRIBLE and don't belong in the NFL, will sprinkle their tweets of approval, and it's all good Tim, we're all good now. Now you can throw. I guess the world functions in the ways of "first to spit, first to shake hand, first to take a picture with" kind of way. All good.
The convo about Tim was never about what he CAN do, it was always what he CAN'T and WILL NEVER do as a NFL QB. It just bothers me, to this day. Even when I see things like this, I take it with a grain of salt.
And I would love to be in Tim's shoes right now. He has a world in front of him, and what ever he chooses, he will not make a bad choice for himself. I can't think of a braver thing to do in a players career to do, than what he did. The best college QB of all time RELEARNED how to throw a football. If that alone is not the most terrifying thing to admit to the greater public, going to CFL would be like taking a piss in the morning right after you woke up.
I really like Sam Bradford as a person and feel he deserved this opportunity with the Eagles after a run of bad luck with injuries; however the news that he is no longer negotiating a contract extension so that he can ask for more at the end of the season is disappointing to me.
I just commented somewhere in the ways of this: "after one good preseason half!? LOL"
I hope everyone on Eagles roster tears their ACL's. Even the coaches and their entire scouting department. I don't care. I don't a good bone in me regarding all of this crap.
Yeah, we're angry too but I can't imagine coaches here (or in the CFL for that matter) being too keen on signing a player that - through no fault of his own - brings along a hoard of fans that hope the rest of their players get injured.
As a matter of principle of course I wish them all well, especially Bradford who has shown no ill will and seems to be exhibiting great character by attempting grueling comebacks in 2 consecutive years. Lots of guys would have hung up the spurs.
But part of me secretly wishes Bradford gets hurt, Sanchez implodes, and Chip plays most of the season with a rotating cast of rejects, finishing low enough to have no hope for the playoffs but too high to get a good draft pick. 7-9 sounds about right. Gets fired, goes back to college, and spends his days watching Tebow highlight tapes and wondering "what if?"
The other part of me can't shake the conclusion that Chip actually did the right thing for Tim, for the right reasons, and that someday we'll look back on this as a necessary step in his comeback process.
Apparently Mark Schlereth offered some sort of mea culpa on his podcast today. I am unable to listen to it at this time so I can't confirm or provide any context (earnest / sarcastic / etc.) Linked below if anyone has the curiosity or stomach for it.
Brooke just told me the same thing. Oh well. We'll chalk him up as emotionally fixed on his opinion. At the very least it demonstrates by contrast the far more objective, and I would argue ethical perspective that Jaws has taken.
Among other things, he has called him the single worst QB he has seen in person. If you don't need to listen to it, don't. I can't have those 5 mins back.
And also referred to us as, among other things, 'parasites'. I've long suspected it's personal w/Schlereth, but I don't know why it would be. Anyway, Sal Pal did an interview on ESPN radio that was much better & in which he mentioned the 'D' word-Distraction. The Tebow part starts at about 4:40 mins:
I only have one question. Why the hassle!? Why invest two years of your life into remaking yourself as a thrower and then not using it at all!? It's almost like, learning French for two years, dreaming about going to France, visiting Eiffel tower and then going to gamble to Vegas instead. I have no words. I'm in shock. I don't care if any team picks him up this year. And I don't even know why I'm butt hurt about this, but I am. And I shouldn't be. It's stupid.
I'll leave it up for a while, on the odd chance something wild happens. You all are welcome to continue to use for your purposes. But I won't be putting any effort into it, and I'll probably take it off the air next spring at the latest. Certainly not going to become a rabid fan of a television personality.
I suppose there's a slim chance that he remains open to the CFL but not open to jumping in the deep end mid-season, particularly when the team that holds his rights is a raging dumpster fire. He may be interested in giving it a shot next year, especially after spending another season watching other guys play ball from the sidelines. Again, a slim chance. Not statistically zero, but close.
If it happens I'll tune in again, but I'm not going to waste any more time or interest on this in the meantime. The scenario above notwithstanding, he's basically just announced his retirement.
Chip was very clear. He needs to be playing somewhere. He chose not to play.
Here's the upsetting thing to me. Realistically speaking, these deals take a little time to negotiate. The lawyers were off on Monday. That means he was released on Saturday, and first thing Tuesday morning started the process of signing with ESPN. He didn't even give it a friggin' chance.
I would bet that if he felt he was getting a fair shake from Chip he would have taken his advice & played somewhere. He probably felt he was being railroaded AGAIN. I can't say that I blame him.
Does his SEC contract say anything about an out clause or has he said anything verbally about playing again.
You're kidding, right!? He's been "railroaded" since being dealt by Broncos, maybe even during that season. But he has done one great thing and a dozen of crappy ones. And the one thing that has him looking better at last, passing better at last, he's kicking it to the curb so he could feel great being Tim Tebow again. He can take his out clause and hope 2014 Arizona Cardinals happen again, and then again Ryan Lindley's of the world will get a chance sooner than him. God bless.
We really don't have enough information to draw that conclusion, or any conclusion. We don't know what his options are. We don't know if the CFL wants him right now or would rather wait until later. We don't know if he wants to wait for a new season with the CFL so he has time to learn a new system and their style of play in practice. We don't know if he read the writing on the wall weeks ago and started engaging his lawyers then just in case. We don't know if he needs the cash flow - he has gone without a salary all year and nine weeks in the CFL isn't going to come close to making that up. We don't know the details and obligations in his network contract. We don't know what Sexton is telling him. We don't know if he has reasonable expectations of getting a call from another team this season.
And we certainly don't know what it's like to get slapped in the face again and again in front of the entire country. If he has decided to retire it's disappointing, yes, but lets remember where the core of our frustration and anger lies.
And with all due respect to all involved and to you all, I don't want to know. He's been so calculating, even shrewd about all of this, it's laughable. If you love football, and will play if for free (as Cooper said about Tim the other day), you play it everywhere and where they want you.
"Here's the upsetting thing to me. Realistically speaking, these deals take a little time to negotiate. The lawyers were off on Monday. That means he was released on Saturday, and first thing Tuesday morning started the process of signing with ESPN. He didn't even give it a friggin' chance."
Why would it take time to negotiate? The way I've always understood his contract's out clause was that it simply enabled him to leave to go play football if the opportunity presented itself. But if it didn't work out, he'd just come back & work under the same 3-year deal he signed in 12/13. If he didn't go to CFL or some other league, I think he's contractually obligated to go back to SECN or be in breach of contract.
I'm not upset about this, b/c I'm sure Tim has info about the CFL/Alouettes that I don't have. He spent TWO YEARS of his life, even moving to miserable L.A. for about a year, to try to get in football again, so I can't imagine he's turning down CFL or other leagues lightly.
There's another possibility here, too. Tim might have reached the conclusion-and not w/out good reason-that he'll never get a fair shot in the NFL, so what's the point anymore? If he's truly given up & considers himself 'retired', the NFL establishment-including most of the commentators, analysts, etc-having repeatedly screwed him over for the past 5 years has to be at the top of the reasons why he's thrown in the towel. If that's the case, I really can't blame him.
I saw a stat the other day that really caught my attention.
In the Super Bowl Era there have been 3 quarterbacks to throw for over 300 yards without an interception & also run for a touchdown in a playoff game. Montana, Rogers & Tebow.
This is the guy that the league & a coach without a playoff win tells us is not good enough to play 3rd string & has to sit behind a guy without a winning record or a playoff win & also sit behind another guy that he defeated in a head to head matchup. Then gets cut for a guy that has never played a down in the NFL.
We all know that it is more complicated than this. But is it really???
Tim received $8.7M guaranteed from the Broncos, and another $2M from the Jets. He was the poster boy for Jockey briefs for 2 years. Nobody knows how much ESPN paid him, but there was reportedly a bidding war for his services, and considering that Skip and SAS make several million $ a year, I would expect Tim's compensation to be similar. So conservatively, he has made a minimum of $10M in his career, and maybe as high as $20M. He has extensive business investments in Florida, including several successful PDQ restaurants and gyms. He regularly hobnobs with billionaires who no doubt share investment tips.
If he needs cash flow, then his ass needs to go buy some Dave Ramsey books.
ITA there is a lot of unknown information. There could be mitigating explanations. He could be contractually obligated. His "out" might have only covered the NFL, not the CFL. There might still be some hidden scheme. Maybe he is still negotiating with the NFL or with the CFL. Maybe ESPN offered him a huge sack of dollars to do one game. I wouldn't be surprised at the latter ... the publicity this saturday is going to be insane.
But as I've said numerous times before, I take things at face value and I take people at their word. Tim said his dream was to play football. Chip said his throwing had improved and he needed to get live reps in games. Tim has chosen a path away from getting live reps in games. We can come up with a zillion ways to rationalize it, but until something happens to prove otherwise, the face value interpretation is that Tim gave up. I hope I'm wrong.
Well said Kathryn. If the CFL or the AFL (Arena) are of interest to Tebow; the last thing he'd want to do is get on the field 'cold' without knowing the nuances of the league and the team's playbook, let alone some practice time with the WR's and OL. The reason, he'd be skewered by the press, north and south of the Canadian border.
If this is the case, the only other 'non-NFL' option would be for Tebow to play AFL in March, 2016 or target CFL later in 2016. I would personally love for him to pursue playing in the CFL and/or AFL with full training camps leading up to the season.
The NFL missed a great opportunity these last 3 years.
Forgot one ... maybe he decided to play AFL instead of CFL. Season starts next spring.
But if I was managing Tim's comeback, I would do BOTH. Go play CFL right now. There are teams that need a starter and would doubtlessly hire him and put him on the field next week. Risky yeah, but less risky than wearing a dapper tie on ESPN if your goal is to play professional football. The risk of not playing football on ESPN is 100%.
"This is the guy that the league & a coach without a playoff win tells us is not good enough to play 3rd string & has to sit behind a guy without a winning record or a playoff win & also sit behind another guy that he defeated in a head to head matchup. Then gets cut for a guy that has never played a down in the NFL."
Exactly. I can't blame Tim if he's decided he can't trust the words or judgement of anyone in the NFL any more.
That's right Brooke. He never complained about being run out of Denver. Subjected himself to being punt protector then was passed over by the 3rd string Quarterback in NY. Then shows the NFL world once again this past Thu. that he deserves to be much more than a 3rd string QB but will accept this in a good faith effort to make the team.
Now he is supposed to listen to these same people tell him to "go get reps". He should be the one telling them where to go.
Totally agree, Bob. I hate the idea that I might never get to see Tim play again, and that he never shut up the haters once & for all. But I can completely understand why he would hang it up at this point.
He's going to have to address his plans. He's going to get asked about it in every interview. Non-answer answers will only get him so far. Former players and staff will also talk, and rumors will be leaked. At some point we'll get some insight.
I can think of one scenario that gets Tim back in the NFL: season-ending injury to Bradford and Sanchez. Before you dismiss that as wildly improbable, consider that is exactly what happened to Arizona last year. Palmer and Stanton were both injured, so AZ signed Ryan Lindley. He had been cut at the end of their camp, so he knew the playbook.
So there's that.
While I'm talking myself into one more hit off the crack pipe: maybe Tim declined to go the CFL because no team would offer him a contract with an exit clause if the NFL called, and he thinks there might still be a chance. Like Kathryn says, maybe Sexton is getting whispers of interest.
"I can think of one scenario that gets Tim back in the NFL: season-ending injury to Bradford and Sanchez. Before you dismiss that as wildly improbable..."
I don't think that's improbable at all. Bradford is fragile physically and Sanchez is fragile mentally. It's very plausible that Chip needs to bring in another QB at some point and that could be why Tim isn't rushing into another league.
There's one thing I do like about the SEC/ESPN gig: I've seen many people on sm basically say they considered Tim to be a joke until they saw him work as an analyst. The general tone of those comments is usually that they still think he can't play in the NFL, but they do respect his football acumen. For someone who's been mischaracterized as a Forrest Gump-type character-even by some of his own fans-getting taken seriously where football's concerned is important.
OK, did some reading. CFL teams generally do not allow NFL escape clauses during the season, only at contract options. So if Tim went to the CFL now he would probably be bound to stay in the CFL at least through November.
That does change the calculus slightly. If he thinks there is a chance other teams will consider him as injuries take their toll, then maybe staying here is a viable path.
I still don't like the ESPN gig, though. I'd rather he lock himself in AZ and train the whole season.
If the Eagles do not start out strongly things can begin to go downhill this year very quickly. Chip could lose the locker room right out of the gate.
He made alot of controversial moves & he needs to show results right away. If he based cutting Tim on the attention he was getting rather than on his production on the field it could be a mistake he will regret.
I am holding out hope but I am feeling a bit foolish thinking one of these teams will call Tim. He should be on a roster right now. There are no good reasons why he isn't.
"OK, did some reading. CFL teams generally do not allow NFL escape clauses during the season, only at contract options. So if Tim went to the CFL now he would probably be bound to stay in the CFL at least through November."
Apparently, the NFL also forbids signing a player the same year they've played for the CFL. From the 2011 CBA:
"Article 20 Sec 1 CFL Rule No club may sign a player who in the same year has been under contract to a Canadian Football League club at the end of that CFL club’s season (regular season or post season whichever is applicable)."
So if he went to the CFL now, in the middle of a miserable season for the Alouettes, he'd be stuck there. He wouldn't be eligible to be on an NFL team until next season. If Tim has any momentum for being signed by a desperate NFL team, it's now-when he's just impressed people w/his performance in that 4th ps game. By next season, Tim will be forgotten about in the NFL again. I now absolutely think Tim's making the right decision to return to SECN/ESPN.
Good find Brooke! I agree, that casts the CFL decision in an entirely new light. It certainly was not the slam dunk obvious choice I viewed it as, which means that Tim has not necessarily given up.
I still think the CFL was worth serious consideration, even if it precluded the NFL this season.
At the end of the day, there is only one good reason not to go to the CFL tomorrow: because he thinks he has a real shot to get back in the NFL this year. Since we don't know what Sexton is hearing, we'll just have to hope this decision is based on a realistic assessment of his chances, and not on pride, money, distrust, etc.
Hopefully he will either say something publicly, or telegraph his intentions through his actions. If he makes a point of continuing his workouts and throwing, and yes keeps visiting Tom House, then there is hopen yet. If he starts popping up on Good Morning America and other nonsense, that suggests maybe he is putting football behind him.
I don't think we should get discouraged if he's on GMA. I think the GMA stuff is a part of his SECN/ESPN responsibilities, even though it's probably a separate contract. ABC is owned by Disney, just like ESPN/SECN & Tim only went on there during football season. I've always assumed the GMA gig was mostly a way that Disney was having him promote the fledgling SECN. They'll probably find other ways for him to do that this season, too.
Something else to keep an eye on is if ESPN eventually moves Greg McElroy from SEC Nation to another assignment, which would not prove but at least suggest that they believe Tim is there to stay for the season. For now they're leaving him put.
Well the financial consideration was just one of many variables I had offered to demonstrate just how little we know about what informed his decision. Scoff at it all you want but the point remains: what we know could fit into a teaspoon while what we don't know could fill the Grand Canyon. And until we know more it might be fair to suggest we put the brakes on characterizing the man as a calculating disappointment.
Something we have yet to take into consideration is the human element. A little amusing to me that this weekend he went out for burgers. The man is a committed health nut - the annoying kind that thinks lettuce is a dessert and brings a container of wheat germ along to restaurants. Not saying I can read the guy but mowing down a burger strikes me as his equivalent of a chick diving face-first into a half gallon of mocha fudge ice cream after getting dumped.
For all we know he believed he'd earned that roster spot just as we had, so imagine not only the heartbreak of losing it at the eleventh hour but the morale-crushing beatdown of hearing your coach effectively tell the rest of the league not to bother. I think in spite of the brave face he offers the public this one really hurt. We like to think he lets the disappointment roll off his back but he's only human. Note that he didn't promise to fight on as he did two years ago when he thanked New England for the opportunity. I think he's reeling a bit and retreating to familiar territory right now, to a place with supportive friends and colleagues where he can occupy himself with work as he considers his options going forward.
I think it's possible that he has not yet given up on the CFL (or arena), and just as possible that he thinks it's a bad idea to go now, for reasons already well-covered in this discussion. No one knows what Tim Tebow needs to succeed as a player better than Tim Tebow. It took him some time to start getting comfortable with the Eagles' playbook, and there's nothing wrong with that. Jumping into the cauldron in Montreal now would likely have resulted in disaster with everyone watching.
All the same I'll end this observation as I started it: we don't know. Face value suggests the next time he's asked he'll confirm that he's retired.
But since when have we let face value get in our way in here?
"A little amusing to me that this weekend he went out for burgers."
Not only burgers, but fries, too. The carbs in the bun on the burger & in the fries is probably more carbs than Tim has had for the past month. While it's not necessarily a sign of Tim retiring, it's certainly a sign of his going off his ultra-strict low-carb regimen...if only for 1 meal.
LOL. It might not mean anything, though. He's said before that he does allow himself to cheat on his diet occasionally w/foods he especially likes. It's probably nothing more than that: a treat.
It occurred to me that the FXFL would be idiots not to consider waiving their eligibility requirements to invite Tim to join. They are a fall developmental league and unofficial feeder league for the NFL. Only players out of college for three years or less are eligible to participate at this time; however they had substantial revenue problems last year and are struggling to gain a foothold on the public's imagination. Signing Tim would eradicate both problems, though as always it would invite the prospect of too much attention and a level of fan expectations that coaches may not want to deal with. And the point of the three-year limit is to prevent vets from using the league to resurrect their careers: think Chad Johnson and Brady Quinn. I think Tim might have a case for an exception however as he was never properly developed in the first place.
Admittedly it's a spectacularly long shot for a lot of reasons, but when even the CFL feels as far away as the sun what difference does it make?
This seems like a lot of words spoken/written about a game a person plays. Contracts, eligibility, going broke, not going broke, keeping his options open, lesser of two evils, calculating, what are agents telling him, his parents, brother etc etc etc.
I have been told this. Tim loves playing football. It was said from him a couple of times this preseason that he would basically play it for free, that when he's without football it hurts to live how much he misses it. And he decides NOT TO PLAY IT.
People, what are you talking about!? Tim has played his last game of competitive football on January 8, 2012. That was the 3:16 game. The next one wasn't competitive at all and Tim was hurt. That's three and a half years, Tim has played his last real game, in real game planed live action. How about we remove the pick glasses and start taking it for what it is. Tim needs playing time. When Tim does his TV crap, he's not playing. Tim does not need to do his TV crap to live the good life. I'm sure he has plenty and enough. TIM NEEDS TO PLAY.
And can we be real once and for all, they'll sooner sign Ryan Lindley AGAIN than pick up the phone to call Tim's agent. If you say that I don't know that for a fact, you haven't been paying attention the last couple of years.
Hall of famer Steve Young did not start playing until he was 30 years old. Tim has already proven he is more than capable of playing in this league as recently as 1 week ago. If they sign Ryan Lindley again before calling Tim's it has nothing to do with playing capability.
Steve Young played 30 years ago. And he played 2 seasons in USFL and 2 in NFL before joining SF. He wasn't a 3rd stringer ever and is probably the most accurate passing QB to play the game. Really!? Steve Young comparison!? And that was 25 years ago. How about we go to realistic comparisons for once!? Tim can't hold Steve's water for what it's worth, and it's a known commodity that Steve likes Tim quite a bit much. Steve Young? REALLY?
And I have heard myself from Steve Young pleading with him to get live reps wherever. Whenever. Wherever. No matter the result. For Tim, live reps are necessary. He has to slow the game for himself, to get a feel for live bodies flying around him and throwing in live game situations.
And to this day I don't understand, why would a non retired NFL player ever do a TV thing that would restrict his playing ability anywhere. If Tim needs money, I'm sure that there would be an easily make-able kickstarter fund that would gather couple of mil in a heartbeat.
Let's put it this way because I don't know how else to put it. He worked his ass off, got his shot, did everything he was supposed to do, succeeded, and was still cut. He's entitled to take his time to weigh all the advice he's been given, examine his options and think things through; and is absolutely under no obligation to immediately jump headfirst and blindfolded into a giant, flaming unknown just because his fans and the press are impatient.
The Alouettes are a raging dumpster fire right now. Their coaches are untested, their GM is throwing crap at the wall, their offense is suffering an identity crisis of midlife proportions, and their season is going down in flames. And, no, Tim is not going to walk into that and magically turn it around. I'm sorry but that's a fantasy. He has zero experience with the CFL game, zero familiarity with their playbook, zero rapport with the team, and zero relationship with the coaches. At this stage he would be viewed as nothing but another burden, a media-magnet that can't read defenses and that they'd have to shoehorn into the rest of the bedlam just to shut his goddamned fans up. He would walk into that situation and fall flat on his face. At that point you might as well chisel the epitaph on the tombstone of his playing career: "Here lies Tim Tebow's career in football. It stepped on the gas instead of the break 'cuz Skip Bayless told him Chip Kelly's a snake!"
Other guys can afford to fail. Other guys can get away with struggling in the 'minors' for months and even years at a time while they develop because no one is paying attention. He can't fly under the radar like that. Everyone will be there watching, and scrutinizing, and tweeting replays of every single mistake because he's Tim Tebow. And every single tweet, every single article, every second of airtime devoted to him will spin into a black hole of media hype that threatens to swallow the team.
He has to play well enough that the coaches believe he's worth the headache. If he's going to get up again, dust himself off again, and give it one more go then he's got to give himself every chance for success. Going to Montreal may be the answer, but running there in a panic is not.
And I say 'if' because for all we know he's concluded he's finally had it with this carrot-and-stick act. And if in your eyes that eradicates all of the work and perseverance that he's put forth to date then he'll just have to live with that.
"He has done this his whole life. Listened to his agents, calculated all along, listened to everyone but himself."
Except that's not true. Throughout Tim's youth, his dad tried to get him to pursue becoming a pro baseball player, instead of a pro football player & Tim said no. Throughout his entire life, people have been telling him to switch from QB to some other position. Tim's not only always said no, but has been so determined to stay a QB that it resulted in him & his mom moving to that apt for 3 years of his high school football playing years & has resulted in him being out of the NFL for 2 years. Watch that clip of Tim in 'Everything in Between' when he was meeting w/Jimmy Sexton to determine whether or not he wanted Sexton to be his agent. He was very assertive & knew exactly what he wanted, & didn't want, in an agent. Tim has his own mind-he's the one calling the shots in his life. Sometimes his decisions are baffling, but I do now believe they've always been *his* decisions, not anyone else's.
This is interesting re the CFL Negotiation Lists ( https://cfldb.ca/faq/rosters/ ):
"If a fair contract offer is received, but rejected, the player is removed from the list one year from the offer date."
and "The CFL's negotiation lists are secret, shared amongst teams and the league office only and are not public. From time to time media reports will name additions and deletions to negotiations lists, but complete lists are held private among the CFL head office and member clubs."
I have read mixed reports on whether or not Tim remains on the Alouettes' negotiation list. I wonder if any reporter has confirmed through sources whether TT is still on the list, or if they are just assuming so based on old information? Presuming a 'fair contract offer' had been received before Tim, with his bags packed, decided to decline, then again presumably he would have been released from the Alouettes list by now. It kind of makes you wonder if he went through with the negotiations just to get an offer so he could reject it and get off their list.
He's probably still on their list, but this is just a fun wrinkle to consider.
Teams have 10 days to respond once a player notifies them of a negotiation window. If the team does not respond within that time the player drops off their list.
I'm wondering if being on CFL team's negotiation list is the same thing as having draft rights to a player. What I've always heard is that the Alouettes still retain Tim's draft rights.
The CFL uses the negotiation list system in place of a draft, so that is what people are talking about when they say the Al's have TT's draft rights. The question however is do they still? The Al's would have lost them recently if an offer was made and rejected last year at around this time, and as far as I know no one has exactly called them to confirm anything.
The CFL mechanics are interesting. My initial reaction was based on the assumption that there were no legal obstacles to going to the CFL immediately. It appears there are both obstacles and potential negative consequences. I agree, not something to leap into.
Kathryn, I don't necessarily agree with your assertion that Tim could not be immediately successful in the CFL. Most players in the CFL are lower tier athletes who never smelled the NFL. With Tim's experience and athletic ability, he would be at least functional right away, with the chance to dominate over time. The differences are far less than the similarities, and some of the differences favor Tim.
But it's pointless to debate that, because it is a hypothetical that will not happen. I'm not interested in pondering Tim's childhood, his psyche, or his finances any more. Like Luzwei, I just want to see him play football and I don't care much where.
I've said it before; I hate watching him as an analyst. I change the channel when he comes on. I also think he has a terrible TV presence, with a squeaky voice and frantic manner. Like a chipmunk on cocaine and steroids.
I'll be watching the Eagles and rooting for blitzing and low hits. Yeah, I'm a bad person now.
Don't get me wrong, I really don't want to be taken for some kind of rebel or anything of that sort, wishing Tim would just flip everyone not caring about his persona or appearance.
Ed diagnosed it correctly. I just wanna see him play football, run peope over, throw 40Y darts, pump fist in the air. And I would say this from word to word exactly.
"I've said it before; I hate watching him as an analyst. I change the channel when he comes on. I also think he has a terrible TV presence, with a squeaky voice and frantic manner. Like a chipmunk on cocaine and steroids. "
And this.
"I'll be watching the Eagles and rooting for blitzing and low hits. Yeah, I'm a bad person now."
And I don't care anymore. I've been nice about this for the last 3 years. No more.
Depressing to go 2 days without any TT discussion. Not ready to give it up yet.
With him jumping right back into the media spotlight, I have to assume someone will ask him something about it. Would be very interesting to parse his words to get a feel for his intent. Maybe he won't say anything because he hasn't decided. If he does say something, please post it here. I unfollowed everything NFL related on Twitter so I'm in the dark.
Supposedly the CBA says any player on the roster as of the opening game has their salary guaranteed, while those signed afterwards can be paid week-by-week. Can anyone confirm? I fully expected the Eagles to put Steven Morris on the practice squad this week after working him out. If the rule about guaranteed salary is true, and they choose to keep Morris on the active roster for Monday, that is a devastating insult to Tim.
Speaking of insults, Chip Kelly's comments at the press conference on Saturday really perplex me. I'm trying to think of any coach has ever described a player as "not good enough" after cutting him. Even though that is the implicit judgement for most players who are cut, usually the coach explains it with coach-speak non-answers and some rah rah pep talk. Why would Chip say such unusually harsh things about someone who he appears to respect personally? I advocate taking people at face value, but I can't resist speculating on possible ulterior motives:
1. Send Tim a clear message that he really needs to give up 2. End media speculation and questions about bringing him back 3. Discourage other teams from pursuing him so he will be available later
#1 is of course sad and horrifying. #2 is the most probable. #3 is wishful thinking, but cannot be totally ruled out until we see if the Eagles finalize that 53rd roster spot. Hence my questions about Morris and when the roster is locked in.
Chip could have sent Tim a clear message that he should give up when he talked to him privately, so that eliminates #1 for me.
"Why would Chip say such unusually harsh things about someone who he appears to respect personally?"
That's what hasn't made any sense to me all along. Add to that sentence "especially right after Tim had played so well in a preseason game that many people were even thinking Tim could compete for the backup role". And, add to the mix how Belichick treated releasing Tim. BB said nothing but good things, yet apparently never had any intention of bringing him back. And Chip is also supposedly buddies w/Urban Meyer like BB. When you combine all that w/Chip's supposedly advising Tim to go to the CFL, along w/the CFL & NFL rules that we now know would prevent Tim from being available for the NFL this season, I come up w/2 possibilities: #2 &/or, for some reason, Chip had taken an extreme personal dislike to Tim & wanted to publicly insult him. I can't imagine the latter being the case, though. However, if Chip didn't actually tell Tim to go to the CFL-if he just said that to the media-, then I lean towards delusional #3.
As for Morris, I vaguely recall at least 1 reporter writing that he's there to be the #3, not on the PS. But that person could be wrong, as could my memory.
There is no doubt that the release & the aftermath have been tough to deal with & make sense of. It has taken away my enthusiasm for the upcoming season. I really don't even want to watch any games but I know I will. Just like the last few seasons I watch these games rooting for certain teams to lose as opposed to rooting for a team to win & this while gratifying at times makes watching alot less fun.
As rotten as the release was I am able to take two silver linings away from it.
1) Tim played so well that he was able to regain some much needed confidence in himself & his new throwing abilities. After what hapened with the Jets & then his unsure performance with New England I thought he had lost some of his confidence & this game went a long way towards restoring it. Should he decide to play again.
2) If you listen to Chips comments from his press conference he gets very annoyed at the constant questioning about Tim's performance. He has to know that Tim is capable of much more than being a 3rd string QB & did not want the focus of media questions & fan attention to be on his 3rd QB. (Why not I do not know. If it was to take the pressure off of his other 2 quarterbacks or he wants the attention to be on himself.) If either of these is the case I think this line of reasoning will backfire.
This may sound a little outlandish but I think when he said Tim was not good enough to be #3 RIGHT NOW" what he really means is we do not have room for Tim at #1 or 2 "Right Now" but go get some reps & we can revisit this in the future. How many coaches tell their 3rd. QB's to go get reps. & use the term "RIGHT NOW" 3rd qb's are usually afterthoughts.
There is no doubt Chip could have handled this much more diplomatticly & not alienated the many Tebow fans who had grown to really like him when he signed Tim when no one else would & I hope this is what he really meant otherwise the whole thing is really dark, ugly & nasty.
If he does put Morris on the final 53 that is still no guarantee that if the other QB's falter he would not bring in another QB. Hopefully that QB would be Tim & not someone else, only then will we know what Chip really thinks.
Tim as usual has taken the high road in all of this. He said again today that he thanks coach Kelly & the Eagles for the opportunity & what happened does not define him. I took that to mean he knows he can play in the league. Whether he tries again or not we will see. He shows no indication of feeling he was wronged so I assume he feels whatever he was told in private is consistent with what was said publicly.
Chip never actually said anything about the CFL in public. That came from a "source in the NFL", and was never substantiated by anyone else. But it's hard not to infer Chip's comments that day as corroborating it, when he was so pointed in saying that Tim needed to play "in the game." Other than the NFL, the only game available to Tim is the CFL.
I think we're barking up the wrong tree by speculating this was some kind of personal pique by Chip. You don't get to his level of success by being that insecure. Plus, there has been no indication at any point in the process that he had anything other than great respect for Tim as a person and an athlete. Plus, he has stated categorically that Tim proved he is a quarterback.
Bob, what did Tim say today? Did he give any indication whether he was done?
Will make a separate post on NFL rules and how they play into the next few days.
So the Eagle's actions from now until Monday are going to be interesting. There are two NFL rules at play.
1. Waivers: anyone released by the team must clear waivers before being signed to the practice squad. That means that any other team can pick them up.
2. Salary: players on the roster as of the first game is guaranteed their base salary for the season, even if they are later released. Players added to the roster after the first game can be paid week by week, and moved back and forth from the practice squad to the active roster as needed.
What makes this so interesting is that the Eagles and Falcons play on Monday night. That gives them a unique advantage in that they get an extra day to watch what other teams do, since all the other teams must lock in their roster tomorrow.
I find it highly unlikely that the Eagles want to commit to Steven Morris on the active roster for a full season based on 4 days of practice. More likely they will want to put him on the practice squad and use that roster spot on depth at another position. However, they cannot put him on the practice squad this week without risking another team claiming him on waivers. So, they wait until the last minute, release him on Monday, and then resign him on Tuesday to the practice squad. That way they can activate him week-to-week and not pay his full salary. They can also use his roster spot to claim a player off waivers that another team releases at the last minute tomorrow.
Why do we care? Well, it gives more insight into what Chip thought of Tim and whether he might consider him in the future. Tim's biggest disadvantage right now is that he is ineligible for the practice squad. Any team wanting to develop him has to spend a roster spot on him, unlike players like Morris who can be kept on practice squad until needed.
If the Eagles actually do spend a roster spot on Morris, that is not a vote of confidence in Tim's future prospects with the Eagles under any circumstances. However, if they are just being clever to park Morris on the practice squad at the last minute, then perhaps the decision to release Tim did have to do with his ineligibility for practice squad, and they might be more inclined to bring him back later in the season if they felt the need.
Grasping at straws? Yup. Not taking things at face value? Yup. However, being the last 2 teams to lock in their roster does provide a competitive advantage, and Chip is not one to let a competitive advantage go to waste. An exception to the rule may be warranted here. Let's watch for roster moves tomorrow and Monday, just in case.
Ed: The comments I attributed to Tim I read this morning. I didn't read or hear anything from him concerning his playing future. Although if he had said he was done we probably would have heard about it.
Tim has put out several tweets in the last few days. The most recent being this morning a pslam proclaiming how thankful he is.
I think he is showing us he is undaunted & unbowed by having been released & not starting the season on a roster. No doubt this courage of conviction is very insipiring.
Speaking of football the Jaguars started off where they left off last season, a loss. If this continues I wonder how long it will be before the fans start calling for him in Jacksonville again.
Cleveland, Houston, & Washington also looked less than up to par. At some point these teams are going to need help. It would be good to see fans all across the country demanding a team signs Tebow.
How they can keep denying Tim a chance to play is a travesty. Making him compete for 3rd string or being at a disadvantage because he is not practice squad eligible is beneath him. He has a winning record in the league & a playoff win. He has more playoff wins than the Eagles coach & their starter combined.
He should be starting on a team & should not have to settle for anything less.
Tim will NEVER play in Jacksonville, not as long as the current regime is there. Plus, the risk of alienating the town is too high. Can you imagine the backlash if the Jaguars did to Tim what Chip just did?
I just can't bring myself to go through another exercise of pointing out all the teams that would be better with Tim. No coach or GM is going to risk their reputation to bring Tim in after the verdict from Chip. No way. Chip really did a number on him.
Season-ending injury to Bradford AND Sanchez. That's what it will take.
By the way, if you want to see some brutal football dysfunction, look no further than my hometown team, the Bucs. Worst record in football, get the #1 pick, spend it on the consensus #1 QB prospect ... and then get slaughtered in their first game, against the #2 pick. Ouch.
Not to pile on negativity, but Bob, this is Tebow's reality. Was for the last 4 years and it still will be.
Chris Mortensen @mortreport 7m7 minutes ago Christian Ponder has been contacted by Raiders as Derek Carr was set to have MRI on hand.
And Tim is also available, we might think he is head above shoulders better than Ponder. We are not the ones making decisions. THIS is Tim's reality. And that's why he should have went anywhere where he can play football.
No team is going to even look at Tim. He got a 6 month tryout with the coach whose system is most optimized for Tim. At the end, Chip picked "whoever we can get" over Tim. And flat out said he wasn't good enough. It's brutal.
I held out a sliver of hope that the cut might have been some kind of roster gaming. At the very least, that they picked Morris because he was practice squad eligible and Tim was not, so they didn't have to spend a roster spot. But there are no NFL transactions today, which means they ARE spending a roster spot on Morris.
If both Bradford and Sanchez were injured in the next few weeks, I think they would bring Tim in, just because he knows the offense. But once Morris learns it, I doubt they'd even do that.
Kathryn uses the phrase "my lying eyes". That's what I can't get over. We all SAW that game, dammit.
I understood when the Pats cut him. I do not understand why Chip cut him and I'm not sure I ever will.
I may not fully understand the first-game-roster rule. Looking at NFL transactions today, there were a ton of players signed to the roster on Saturday, inactive on Sunday, and cut today. If my understanding were correct, those teams just guaranteed their salary for the year, just for the privilege of not dressing them on Sunday. That makes no sense.
So I may also be misinterpreting the Eagles' actions WRT Stephen Morris. He is inactive tonight, so perhaps they have not committed to anything yet.
I think #4 is that as the preseason progressed, the Eagles made a strategic decision to commit to Bradford long-term. It's very possible that during ensuing talks, Bradford's camp communicated uneasy feelings about Tebow being on the roster after seeing the first preseason game where Tebow received a standing ovation. It would be understandable for a QB's advisers to be resistant to signing a long-term contract with a team that has a more popular QB on the roster behind him.
It seems like Chip's hand was forced. His post-game comments and cutdown press conference were all over the map when viewing them in the context of how he handled Tebow's status in training camp and OTA's. With personnel control within the organization, however, that pressure would have had to have come from outside the building (and not in a 'tin foil hat' way - meaning it would have needed to be a source that could directly influence something of interest to the Eagles).
So here I am, sitting in my truck following the Eagles game on my phone using nfl mobile, and so totally rooting for the Falcons to win. Am I the only one?
Well was that GREAT or what!!!!!! The look on Chip's face was priceless.
That team is not the juggernaut as advertised. That game should not have been as close as it was. I think Tim would have looked much better than what the Eagles showed tonight.
I have said it in previous comments things could go south real fast for this team & thay may not be able to recover. GO COWBOYS!!!!!
Didn't watch on TV so I missed Chip's face. But thanks for the mental image; I'll enjoy imagining it.
That's the thing about Bradford. Looks awesome in practice with the quick darts, but when the heat is on he checks down instead of going deep. Dink and dunk may produce nice stats but it won't win championships in the NFL.
Bradford's style of play also lends itself to interceptions. DBs aren't worried about him taking the top off with deep shots, so they have more freedom to jump the short routes.
You know I wanted to make a comment on something you said earlier about not understanding why Chip cut Tim. I don't understand either but I think it showed that he is not as unconventional as we might have liked to believe. There is alot of evidence to suggest that he is taking a bigger risk with Bradford & Sanchez as he would be with Tim. As you say dink & dunk won't win championships. If you & I can see it then I am sure Chip has to see it as well. But again its the safe conventional move.
Tim could have done so much for the running game tonight. Chip really made a big mistake cutting him I hope he rethinks his decision & soon.
Now they have to face Dallas at home & will be under alot of pressure. If they lose this one look out the Philly fans will begin to get restless & the chants for Tebow may begin.
Ed / Bob. Completely agree with both of your points about dinc and dunc vs deep throws over the top. Additionally, all I could think of last night watching the game was that the Falcons DE's were not at all concerned about the QB running. This element is has been missing from Kelly's offense ever since coming to the NFL. At Oregon, Marcus was always a threat to run and could throw deep. With Sanchez, Bradford and before them, Foles is missing 1/3 of his offensive threat.
Bob. you are correct, their running game could have been rolling in the 1st QTR with Tebow at QB and Murray in the backfield. Sad we can't see this in Philly's scheme.
Watching the Bronco/Steeler playoff game from 2011 on espn2 nfl greatest games. Its bittersweet. Incredible memories on that day that will live in nfl lore forever vs an overwhelming sense of disgust at what has happened since.
Compare this to the Eagles game last night & no one can say Tim is not good enough.
It's like the old joke about the job of the vice president being to inquire daily on the health of the President. All we can really do at this point is watch football every Sunday and count the number of quarterback ACL tears.
Chip pushed his Chips to the center of the table with Bradford & the roll of the dice came up snake eyes. He chose a quarterback with a long injury history & a losing record. Is it any wonder they are 0-2.
Right now this team is unorganized, demoralized, uninspired & leaderless. A Tebow led team would never be stuffed like they were today. There is only one way out of this predicament. 1-800-TEBOW
The Bears may also be a possibility. Last year Mrs. Mcaskey was very upset with the lack of spirit on the team. Who better to provide that spark than Tim. Fox & Gase know what he can do & would probably have the owners backing if they want to do this.
At least that is what I want to believe. Surely someone out wants to try winning for a change!
Bob, I completely agree. If there was another team other than the Eagles (who happen to be well suited to Tebow's game), it would be the Bears. Tebow is a better QB today than when Adam Gase worked with him in 2011/12. I could actually see this working if it were to transpire. But, like everything Tebow in the NFL, it's a million to one shot ... sadly.
Ron Dog: Da Coach Mike Ditka really likes Tim & you never know I am sure he must have some influence within the Bears organization. Maybe he can persuade the right person to give Tim a chance.
AIKMAN. You don't have options after Brandon Weadon. They only kept two quarterbacks on the roster. You know that they're going to be looking at the wire and seeing who's available when they go into next week. I'm sure they've got a few people in mind in case this happened.
BTW. I actually thought Bradford was going to thrive in Chip's offense this year. But, I underestimated two factors: 1. The Eagles O-Line is sub-par. 2. Bradford is playing like a dear in the headlights.
With a sub-par O-Line and an immobile QB, you have a recipe for disaster. While Bradford still goes through the motion of a read-option to Murray on every play, the opposing defense knows with near certainty that Bradford is not a threat to run. As such, there isn't much separation by the Eagles receivers and not over the top opportunities.
Nothing about Tim's NFL career has made any sense so I am going to try to make sense out of the non-sensible.
Maybe the best thing that could have happened to Tim was not making the final roster. That way he can not be scapegoated for this horrible start. If he lands on a team now he comes in to potentially improve a situation & not be blamed for one.
Like all of us I am tired of all the BS. It's high time they just let this guy play.
I will leave one comment here. It still baffles me after 5 years really tuned in into NFL. How in the hell do these coaches think that looking great in practice is enough to form a conclusion and that mental toughness is just something that comes and goes after few nice completed passes in the game!? You need bad MFers as your starters, fearless leaders, boneheaded assholes inside. How you take a weak ass minded QB after TWO ACL tears to the same knee and expect him to eat the field in front of him, is beyond me. I almost feel bad for Sanchize now too. He never played this bad for CK.
Eagles make quarterback change, and it doesn’t involve Tim Tebow
Eagles coach Chip Kelly said last night he’d evaluate everything, and he’s started at the quarterback position.
According to Reuben Frank of CSNPhilly.com, the Eagles have swapped out third quarterbacks, releasing Stephen Morris and signing Thad Lewis.
Lewis was part of final cuts by the Browns this preseason, and has also done time with the Rams, Texans and Bills, meaning he’s moved among some of the most dysfunctional quarterback depth charts in the league in recent years.
He’s played in seven NFL games and has a career 81.4 rating, with more touchdowns (five) than interceptions (four), and has played some generally acceptable football along the way.
I don't look at this as being incredibly insulting to Tim. I am beginning to laugh at the lenghts these people are going to to avoid him. They are making fools of themselves & a mockery of the game itself.
I am curious if Tebow is hot on the trail of another NFL QB spot. If he is still working out with House in LA, there is a reason for that: Long term thinking with another league in 2016 or another opportunity with another squad. It isn't like there isn't a list of NFL teams in need of a QB here in WK2/3 this season: - New Orleans: Drew hurt his shoulder yesterday and may miss time. Luke McCown is their QB2 - Chicago: Cutler with a hamstring issue. As Bob points out, Gase & Fox know what Tim can do. - Dallas: Romo out for 8+ weeks with Weeden as his backup QB. - Eagles: Sam 'Dear in the headlights' Bradford looks scared behind that line, I would too with two ACL reconstructions under my belt. - Browns with Johny Football under center now, durability certainly an issue, not to mention the tendinitis in his throwing arm. A backup needed to be sure. The other McCown isn't the answer for the Browns.
There are certainly reasons all of these franchises above wouldn't make sense as a home for Tebow (scheme, personalities, etc.); but, opportunities none the less.
But, it'll be a million to one shot for Tebow to land on an NFL squad this season. Would love to see it though.
Tim must be counting on QB injuries to create roster spaces. After a few QB's go down, they'll run through any healthy veterans on the free agent market and get into Ryan Lindley territory. If that happens early enough in the season, maybe his film from the last preseason game tempts someone to try him out. He was in a camp this season and got reps, so his odds are better than last year.
I doubt a short term injury like Cutler, Brees, or Romo would do it. He needs a season-ending injury to a starter with a weak backup, and preferably a meddling owner.
Gotta wonder what Chip would do if Bradford and Sanchez both stink it up in the first half of the season.
Great question Ed: "Gotta wonder what Chip would do if Bradford and Sanchez both stink it up in the first half of the season."
I honestly don't know. With Chip bringing in Thad Lewis as a QB3, it's obvious he and his coaching staff don't want external pressure from fans and press to play Tebow. I can only assume that's the case. I get the sense that if Tebow plays for the Eagles, he starts for the Eagles with the team and front office "all in". This is honestly the way I'd want it; but, it's just so hard to find a situation like this. Really only as you suggest: "a QB1 major injury, weak QB2 and a meddling owner." Classic.
This is a must see video of an Eagle fan leaving the stadium yesterday. The controlled anger & frustration in his voice is very powerful. The video gives a good representation of the mood in Philly right now.
IT MAY HAVE BEEN A BLESSING FOR TIM THAT HE DID NOT MAKE THIS TEAM.
Next week Philly plays the Jets in NY & it could be another long afternoon for them if this defense plays as well as they did tonight. We may be hearing the term interim coach in the not too distant future.
Jets defense is legit this year. Bradford stunk against mediocre defenses from Atlanta and Dallas. Could be brutal going against Revis and Cromartie, especially with constant media chant about throwing deep. And he's going to get hit, too.
At 2-0 the coaches can still say Keep Calm. At 3-0 it will become Fix It Now. At 4-0 they will make changes or become part of the changes.
After Tim was cut it occurred to me that it would make sense on both sides for Tim to give the FXFL a shot. They are, after all, a de facto feeder league for the NFL and have everything in place for long-term success except that crucial X-Factor that drives public interest. Inviting Tim to join struck me as a perfect solution for both, providing the FXFL with an instant and massive injection of public interest, while giving Tim the reps he needs in an NFL format without any contractual restrictions against jumping ship in the same season. The only obstacle appeared to be an eligibility requirement that prohibited the participation of players who were more than three seasons removed from college. The restriction was apparently put in place to prevent crowding FXFL rosters with NFL players attempting to revive their careers.
But now they have waived that restriction and signed Josh Freeman to the Brooklyn Bolts in a move that should prove mutually beneficial. I have to say I admire Freeman for taking this step. It's a tenacious and smart thing to do, and a heck of a lot better than waiting around for the phone to ring.
Last year was their inaugural season so it's not well known at all. It met with modest success in terms of their model, and even though they aren't officially affiliated they do have the attention of the NFL. Quite a few of their players have been given opportunities with teams. They're a legit operation and they've got everything they need organization-wise to establish a solid foothold as that long-elusive minor league for the NFL -- except for anything remotely approaching the NFL's popularity. Along with that comes the $$ to keep expanding. In that regard signing Tim would be the equivalent of getting a blank check in the mail. I hope Tim considers it, but he's very hard to read right now.
I want so badly to believe his situation has changed from last year because he was in camp this year. I want to believe that his film will get attention and some team will give him a shot as injuries shrink the pool.
But the awful truth is sinking in: he's done, no matter what he does. Nobody will touch him with a ten foot pole after Chip ditched him like that. FXFL, AFL, CFL, it will all just look pathetic in the eyes of the league.
Schadenfreude is all there is left. I'm looking forward to watching Chip get humiliated by the Jets this Sunday, with Bradford furiously checking down and Revis/Cromartie grabbing 2 or 3 picks. I do want them to win one game so they can be 1-4 like the Broncos were in 2011. Then we can see Chip's face while the crowd chants "Tebow!" as the Giants beat them at home. His face will be my screensaver for a while.
He may well be done. But I don't understand why other teams would put much stock into what Chip said about him though. Right now his opinions don't seem to hold much value.
If he keeps placing his teams fortunes & his coaching reputation on Bradford it will be him who is "not good enough".
The ultimate schadenfreude for me would be for TT to join the CFL and kill it. I mean a Doug Flutie like career that proves the a-holes wrong. And that makes him happy enough to stop giving a sh*t about the NFL, and that postpones the broadcast career for 7-10 years.
But like I said he's hard to figure right now. I think the return to SECN was an emotional decision, so there's a chance he's not done yet. I just hope standing on the sidelines again all season sparks the desire to give it a shot. Again.
Kathryn. Great point wrt the FXFL. I just listened to a Trent Dilfer interview on ESPN Radio (Russillo & Kanell) about this very thing (giving QB3/QB4's reps): http://espn.go.com/espnradio/playPopup?id=13718332
3:21 ... Trent's take on Sam Bradford 3 minutes 21 seconds into the podcast 5:25 ... Discussion of NFL QB development ideas / QB School / etc.
Man, he boiled Sam Bradford down to the bare essence:
"He was a guy who never had success when it got cluttered, when it got chaotic, with tight pockets, with messy stuff. He was a guy who needed to play clean."
And of course Tim is the polar opposite, a player who thrives on chaos. So frustrating that NFL coaches cannot comprehend that solid play in a clean practice environment may not translate to play in games.
Did Trent ever say anything about Tim's final game, or about him being cut?
"Man, he boiled Sam Bradford down to the bare essence ..." He sure did.
I've kept an eye out for Dilfer commenting on Tebow's pre-season play and release from the Eagles. But, I suspect Dilfer is hesitant to speak out now after being skewered after he did that piece on Tebow training with House on ESPN. Turns out Dilfer was ahead of the curve in publicly discussing Tebow's reworked throwing mechanics. I would love to hear his take on Tebow's fit with the Eagles offense versus Bradford/Sanchez.
More evidence that Tim was cut for non-football reasons. When the Eagles signed Thad Lewis a few days ago to be 3rd QB their reasoning was "he has won games in this league". His record is 2&4.
I still maintain Tim has was better off being released than being stuck as 3rd stringer on this dysfunctional team.
FINALLY. A talking head says what we've been saying here all year. It took Jon Gruden to point out that Chip's system is 'predicated on the threat of a QB keeping the ball. So, when they bring in Thad Lewis, maybe they are bringing in a 'mobile QB' who will not inspire the PHILLY fans to CHANT 'Lewis, Lewis, Lewis' when the Eagles offense is sputtering.
It does appear that Kelly and his staff didn't want the external pressure to play Tebow on a daily basis. But, IMO, Tebow was the best choice the Eagles had for their Kelly offense. Their loss to be honest.
MY TWITTER POST: https://twitter.com/RonDogCO/status/646730413633728512
Mike & Mike Video: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=13722259
MIKE & MIKE (Adnan Virk) SEPTEMBER 23, 2015 @ 7:52 AM How do you start to fix this. I mean, Chip Kelly certainly is a guy that believes in himself, has taken on ownership of personnel, but, how do you reconcile that fact they just look so bad in that second game there. How do you rebound against the Jets?
JON GRUDEN <<...>> I think they have to take a look at the QB. You know, I think this Chip Kelly up-tempo offense, a lot of it is predicated on the threat of the QB keeping the football. And Sanchez wasn't a real mobile QB, Michael Vick was. When you hand that ball off on these sweep plays, you have to have the QB become a threat to keep it on the backside. Otherwise, nobody honors Sam Bradford. Nobody honors him at all. When Chip Kelly coached at Oregon, you had to defend 10 Gaps. You had to defend sideline to sideline because you never knew if that ball was being handed or kept by the QB. Right now there is no threat of Bradford doing anything running the ball and I think that's a big culture shock to this offense.
The only thing to suggest Thad Lewis might be mobile is his skin color. He had - 178 career rushing yards in college. That's negative yards. In the ACC. Seriously.
The more I think about this situation, the more insane it makes me.
My brother in law said "there MUST be something we don't know." He's right. I only hope that after Chip & Co implode, someone spills the beans on the inside story. Just so we know.
I didn't know Lewis had so few rushing yards at Duke. Nice find. But, I think that may be as much a statement about the Duke offensive scheme. The Draft Profile on his says he can extend plays; but, as we all know, that's a whole lot different than being a legitimate threat to run:
He also has a whopping 55 yards in the NFL on 25 carries for 2.2 YPC. By comparison, Sanchez also has a 2.2 YPC and Bradford has a 1.9 YPC. Tom Brady has 2.3 career YPC, and I'm pretty sure I can outrun TFB.
What do you all think about my take that Tim was better off being released from this team. I believe the implosion we are witnessing would still be happening if he were on the team.
By not being on the team he is in the clear.
Would it had been in Tim's best interest to have made the team or not?????
In hindsight Bob, yes, Tim would absolutely be the scapegoat for the heinous performance we've seen from the Eagles so far. It would have been the Jets all over again, so in that regard he's better off. That said, the argument could also be made that the team actually wouldn't be in this position had he been available to make a few plays. It's all about momentum, and there were several instances over the course of the last two games in which he could have guaranteed a few first downs, and even a touchdown (that Bradford instead threw for a pick). He might have made the difference. But woulda, coulda, shoulda, we just don't know and won't know because he was cut.
Ed. I agree with you and your Brother-in-law; there must be something that transpired in the NovaCare offices that changed the trajectory of Tebow as an Eagle. Especially after the Preseason Game 4 performance and the steep line of improvement he showed. Hope it does surface down the road.
Was it?: - Eagles HC and/or ASST Coaches didn't want to deal with the Philly crowd chanting TEBOW, TEBOW during games at NovaCare. - Did Chip feel Bradford and Sanchez were mobile enough to extend the pocket and make plays downfield? - Did Chip truly believe that Bradford would put his two ACL reconstructions behind him and not 'hear footsteps' causing him to ALWAYS hit the check down and not throw it deep for a big play? - Did Bradford & Sanchez’s contracts get in the way of playing Tebow this year. Do they plan to cut Sanchez & Bradford loose next year and move to KELLY'S EAGLES OFFENSE 3.0? - Does Chip legitimately want Tebow to get reps in another league with the intent to bring him back down the road when some of the challenges listed above are squared away? - Did an edict from on-high (Owner: Lurie) come down saying we need to cut Tebow loose? - Has Chip lost his nerve and ultimately was not able to pull the trigger on going completely ‘rouge’ & 'unconventional' with Tebow in the Eagles' zone-read option? - Does Chip have his eyes on the Titan’s head coaching job, even though it is currently filled? - Did Pat Shurmur (Eagles OC) convince Chip to cut Tim loose because of his long-standing relationship with Bradford, knowing Bradford (and of course Sanchez) would crumble under the pressure of a popular TEBOW in the wings? - If Kelly was considering utilizing Tebow strategically in '3rd and short', 'goal line' and '2-point conversions' during the season, did the fact that Sanchez (QB2) would need to be inactive on game-day for the roster numbers to work, get in the way? Was he concerned Bradford wouldn't accept missing out on scoring opportunities in the Red Zone with Tebow capitalizing instead? - Did Chip really bring in Tebow as a favor to Urban giving Tebow national exposure to kick-start his career and always viewed Tim as a camp arm? - Has Chip lost his mind?
So many reasons come to mind. But, ultimately, if Chip was as independent and unaffected as he says he is, why didn’t keep and utilize Tebow?
Bob. I also agree that Tebow may be better off not being directly associated with this building implosion. I also agree with Kathryn that Tim could have kept momentum going in certain instances this year; but, Kelly and Shurmur would have had to utilized Tebow in the exact moments to avoid this collapse.
BUT ... in spite of making plays, I just know that the talking heads and the Eagles' QB1 / QB2's would have blamed their ineffectiveness on having to swap Tebow in and out of the game, disrupting their momentum and continuity. Remember that load of bull we heard in NY with the Jets' Sanchez?
If the Eagles were smart, they'd bring Tebow in as their QB1 to kick-start the run-game, keep the opposing linebackers and safeties honest and open up passing windows and the deep ball.
As it is today, the field of play is NOT wide open for play-makers to run free, it's as bunched and tight as can be with Bradford behind center (NOT A THREAT TO RUN OR THROW DEEP).
This discussion reminds me of an experience I had while in Boston for grad school in 1997. A group of us found an indigent man unconsicious in the subway station late one night. Someone went and got the station attendant, who radioed 911. While we were waiting for an ambulance, the man stopped breathing and I announced my intention to begin CPR. The station attendant asked me if I was a "trained medical personnel." I replied, "well he's dead right now, so I don't think I can make him worse."
That's my answer on Tim. His career is dead now. Playing anywhere in the NFL would not make it worse. He would be far better off on the Eagles than doing ESPN, regardless of how bad the team is doing.
Last year when things looked bleak & we had no reason for hope Chip came out of nowhere & signed Tim to a one year deal (although parading a playoff winning QB around as perspective 3rd stringer was beneath him & he deserved much more we accepted it in good faith). We know how that turned out.
What it did give Tim though was an opportunity to leave us (& coaches as well) with a lasting impression of what he could do on the field.
His career may very well be dead now. But I think if he has any chance at all of reviving it, it was better to leave that lasting impression than to be caught in another firestorm of controversy on a team that seems intent on imploding.
I lip-locked him for a few minutes til a fire truck showed up and jump started him. They got him breathing again, but he was in a coma at the hospital that night and I doubt he recovered. I waited too long to start CPR because I didn't recognize what was happening. Afterwards I noticed he had a cardiac bracelet. If you ever have a loved one lose consciousness, monitor their pulse carefully.
Your story reminds me of a health drama that I witnessed. I too was in grad school at the time and it also occurred in a subway - the Washington, DC Metro. It was late at night, around 10:30, and I was on my way home to my basement apartment in Laurel, MD from night class at GWU. I had to transfer to the green line at the L'Enfant Plaza station and *always* missed the connection by just a minute or two, so had to wait twenty minutes for the next northbound train to come. That particular station is dead that time of night, so there were only four or five other people on the platform. Since it is an intersection station, the green/yellow line tracks cross above the orange/blue line tracks, and there is a short, waist-high wall surrounding the upper platform with a bench placed along the wall ever twenty or so yards. So that night some guy came along and for some reason stepped up on one of the benches and sat on the wall instead. After a few minutes a loud crack echoed through the station. The guy had fallen backward off the wall and landed a dozen feet or so at the bottom of what I can only describe as a concrete ditch running the length of the station floor. Someone ran to get help while the rest of us ran to the wall. We had to tell him to stop moving because he was just laying down there moaning and lolling back and forth senselessly, all the while a pool of bright red, super oxygenated blood was spreading behind his head. By the time emergency services arrived the pool was the size of a hubcap. The paramedics were still working on him when the train showed up, so I left and never learned what became of him. I can stomach a lot of gore but that was really disturbing. Maybe not so much the blood, but the idea that with one decision in a split second everything can change. The guy may have died, or lost his sight...all because he decided to sit on the wall instead of on the bench.
I've seen my share of bad stuff, and it's always sobering to consider how fine a line we walk between health and catastrophe. I had some crazy hobbies like rock climbing and aerobatic flying when I was younger, but the thing that scares me the most looking back were things involving alcohol and general youthful stupidity. Terrifying to realize how quickly a life can end or be ruined in an instant, especially where cars are involved.
On the other hand, strange how little we can react to things that shold be horrifying. As a young army officer I happened upon a murder-suicide scene a few minutes after it happened. Things were still chaotic and I was unsure what had happened; fleeing soldiers had reported a "sniper", and there were literally men crawling behind the curbing on the street for cover. I came across the perpetrator in a grassy area shortly after he suck-started his M16 rifle. His entire intact brain was laying on the grass next to him. I looked at the brain, looked at him, and said out loud, "dude, you are going to need that."
The guy he murdered, 1LT Gary Parker, was a friend and a fine officer. He was killed for doing his duty. He was a promising young black officer and would have excelled in the service. Sad to think about, even a quarter century later.
Thought you'd like to hear this insightful commentary by Carter and Westbrook on Mike & Mike yesterday. Perhaps Kelly and his coaching staff didn't see this coming from Bradford (checkdowns and lack of courage in the pocket). I think Sanchez would be better than Bradford in the shotgun; but, either way, both QB's are sitting ducks with their porous offensive line.
Quite honestly, the safer position for an Eagles QB to be in is running a read-option and 'freezing' the DE's and DL.
MY TWEET: https://twitter.com/RonDogCO/status/646746263459864576
AUDIO: http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=13715742 (at the 7 minute mark)
Brian Westbrook says Sam Bradford choosing ‘check-downs’ over deep passes to get the ball out of his hands and avoiding hits.
MIKE & MIKE (Chris Carter) SEPTEMBER 22, 2015 "My biggest concern is Sam Bradford has not completed a pass over 20 yards. <<…>> This offense is not going to be successful if you can’t stretch the ball deep."
BRIAN WESTBROOK <<...>> "Chris, you know. What do you have to have to get the ball downfield? First of all, you need the protection up front. They don’t have that, that’s their #1 problem. Second of all, you have to have a QB who’s willing to hold the ball for that 7-step drop, those 3 or 4 seconds in the pocket to deliver the ball downfield. What we’ve seen so far from Sam Bradford is, he wants to take the check-down. He wants to get that ball out of his hands quickly so he can avoid the hit. And, so that doesn’t allow guys like Agholor and Jordan Matthews to get downfield and get those explosive plays that you’re talking about Chris. So now you have a team that needs those explosive plays to make a defense respect the downfield, to hold that safety from coming downhill right after the snap. They’re not getting that because they can’t block it, but, #2, the QB is not willing to step back in the pocket, quite possibly take a hit or even take the chance of delivering the ball downfield because he wants to get ball out of his hands so quickly."
Kathryn. I saw that about Murray also. If he is truly nursing a hamstring and can't play Sunday, I actually think the Eagles may be better off in the short term with Sproles in the backfield. With their O-Line playing as poorly as they are, having a back that can go east and west and not just 'downhill' like Murray may be a better option.
If their QB was also a threat to run, then Murray could be effective. But, with the O-Line not performing and the Defense keyed in on Run Plays sending their Safeties and LineBackers on blitz after blitz, Murray doesn't have a chance.
*** Part of me also thought that the Eagles and Murray are just using the 'sore hamstring' excuse to keep Murray out of having to talk to reporters today while he is still hot and embarrassed about his '5.5 AVG RUSHING YARDS PER GAME' as an Eagle. That's a total of 11 rushing yards going into Game 3.
Update on Tim being in L.A. There haven't been any sightings of Tim at USC or UCLA, but someone in the media did tweet about Tim being in CC again:
Holly Long @HollyanneLiz 1m1 minute ago Ahem @TimTebow Im in the Hyatt lobby it looked like you were trying to find me
In her earlier tweet, she mentioned that Tim was headed to the spa. The Hyatt in CC is long believed to have been where Tim usually stayed while he was working w/House.
Good article at profootballtalk.com. It was supposed to be the Eagles but the Steelers are taking the lead on two point conversions. It's a copycat league so it could start a trend. Extra points are no longer automatic. It makes sense to go for 2 in alot of cases. 5 out of 10 2pt. conversions is better than 9 of ten extra points.
Good stuff, especially calling Chip on the BS with Morris and Lewis. Sure am looking forward to the Jets destroying the Eagles on Sunday. How weird have things gotten that we're pulling for the Jets of all teams?
I don't see Chip benching SB during this game, but if he stinks it up again, there will be a lot of pressure to make a change for game 4.
He wrote what I think is ESP waiting to write for some days now. And I take ESP for one of the more level headed and realistic beat writers out there. He never took Tebow and made him a starter, rightfully so, and he never proclaimed Bradford the next big thing in CK's offense. He coming full circle to saying from the beginning that Sanchez is the better option at QB. And that Tebow should not be cut. Amen.
I don't root for the Jets under any circumstances. This is one case in which "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" doesn't apply; and at any rate never underestimate the Jets' capacity for disappointing you - whatever it is you're hoping from them. If the Eagles lose, too bad for them. But even if they beat the Jets it's not like some sort of feather in their caps. It's the Jets for Christs sake.
Well, I may not be rooting for the Jets to win, but I am definitely rooting for the Eagles to lose. Since the latter is a necessary precondition for the former, I'm ok with it. Besides, the main architect of Tim's debacle there has moved his buffoon show a few hundred miles north.
ESP's timing is probably better than Weinberg's. Benching the QB after 2 or 3 games is premature. However, if SB shows the same poor performance tomorrow, then game 4 will become a do-or-die scenario. If Sam can't get traction against the Skins, then Chip may have to choose between him and his own job.
Gotta wonder how much of this situation falls on Pat Shurmur. SB was Shurmur's guy in SL, and Lewis was one of Shurmur's guys in Cleveland. No doubt he had a hand in the decision to ditch Tim too. If the Eagles season goes down the drain early, gotta wonder how long it takes Chip to throw Pat under the bus.
Right now I have an uncomfortable preoccupation with Derrelle Revis's groin.
Well I'll leave you to your preoccupation with Derrelle Revis' groin. In the meantime I agree re Shurmur. I've suspected since comments he made during preseason that Shurmur was more of an obstacle than we'd hoped he would be. In that regard Chip's comment "He's not good enough" could be qualified as "not good enough to overcome Shurmur's reservations".
I am also rooting if not for the Jets to win than definetely for the Eagles to lose & hopefully lose in a decisive way! The buffoon show moving north definetely allows me the latitude to enjoy a Jets revival. After all how can any football fan not enjoy what Broadway Joe did for the NFL. I especially liked the mink coats he used to wear & all the girls he used to date. :)
The Eagles are down for the count & I don't want anything to allow them back up off the canvas. Although I do agree, I don't underestimate the Jets capacity for dissapointing me. How can the Eagles continue on knowing with SB they cannot use any read option plays?? One or two more losses & the fans will be screaming for Tebow.
I agree with what you all said regarding Shurmur. He probably got into Chips ear & Chip went along. Hopefully he will reverse course on this if only for the sake of opening up the playbook.
Did anyone see the article today on Philly.com by the associated press "Tebow returns to TV while he awaits next NFL opportunity". Tebow is still very much engaged in what is going on in the NFL & has watched both Eagles games as well as many others. I think it's safe to assume he wants another opportunity to play. What I wouldn't give to know what his real thoughts are on those first 2 ugly losses.
The AP article actually thought Tim had won the 3rd QB Job. That's not an insignificant assertion. If the AP was siding with Tebow it possibly signals a slight shift in the Tebow narrative.
The local beat guys watched Tim's progression from the first day of OTA's to the last drive of the preseason, and they were pretty much unanimous in thinking Tim had won the job.
"Gotta wonder how much of this situation falls on Pat Shurmur. SB was Shurmur's guy in SL, and Lewis was one of Shurmur's guys in Cleveland. No doubt he had a hand in the decision to ditch Tim too."
Ed. I honestly think this is a huge part of why we and so many are shaking out heads in disbelief here in Week 3. For whatever reason, I also believe Shurmur has inordinately influenced some of the Eagles' decision making this season. I know this goes against conventional wisdom regarding Chip Kelly's hands-on approach to every level of decision making. I suspect Kelly may have been prompted by Lurie, or out of necessity, to increase his level of delegation. A lot of coaches need to do this; many do it successfully.
Whatever did happen, in the end only one guy is going to be held accountable & it's not Shurmur. Chip made all those questionable offseason moves he can not afford to hide behind Shurmur.
Bradford played poorly again, but this win takes the heat off the coaches to do something right away. Eagles play the Skins next week, so they'll have a pretty good chance to win regardless of whether Bradford sucks.
Tim isn't getting an invite back no matter how things shake out so it really doesn't matter. I suppose I can appreciate the fleeting satisfaction of revenge-by-proxy but at the end of the day schadenfreude doesn't put Tim on a football field. No amount of bad luck or piss poor play will open the door to any team because nothing has changed. It's the same shit, different year. We've seen this movie before and we know how it ends.
If he ever wants to play football again he knows what he's gotta do. Whether he's willing to do it is the question. Frankly I doubt it.
The difference between the Eagles and the Jags is that I could actually spell out a plausible scenario for Tim coming back. If Bradford got benched after 4 straight losses, and MS reverted to his turnover machine self, by the 8th game, or if both of them got hurt, Chip just might have been desperate and crazy enough to try it. Tim would have an advantage over any other FA in that he went thru camp and therefore knows the offense. Don't laugh, that's how Ryan Lindley wound up starting a playoff game.
Is that likely? Of course not. But more likely than his odds with any other team in the league, which are currently at zero point zero percent.
Looks like Big Ben went down today, possibly for the season if the horrible pics are to be believed. I don't see Tim going to the Steelers, but they will have to grab someone because Vick is guaranteed to get hurt at some point. Poor guy's brains have to be made of oatmeal at this point.
I do not agree. If Chip were to lose both his starting QBs suddenly, bringing Tim back would be the most likely outcome. And I say that not as a Tebow fan but as a basic observer of the football universe, with zero wishful thinking.
There must have been a reason Chip signed Tim back in the spring. What could that reason have been?? Did he or did he not know what to expect when he signed him??
Was Sanchez right when he was criticized for saying Tim was just a camp arm??
Todays ugly win only prolonged the inevitable. Bradford is obviously not the answer at Quarterback. The only thing he did not do was throw a crucial interception to cost them the game. A win is a win but there is no way the coaches could be happy about how today's game went. They are not playing the game the way the coaches envision it. Zero points in the 2nd half countless 3 & outs when they should have been putting the game away. The only thing uglier was the play of the Jets offense. Now with the Skins coming up they may actually get back to .500. Is there any justice????
I am not as pessemistic to think Tim will never get an invite back. If this was the case he would have never have gotten an invite in the spring to begin with & I would still like to know why he did. Although I know I never will.
On another note: Other than the usual anti-Tebow reasons for not signing him. Why would the Steelers not at least consider him?
1) He & Vick both like to run. 2) Both are left handed throwers. 3) Tim & Antonio Brown worked out together in the offseason. Antonio may be a good ally for Tim.
Other than the usual aversion to all things Tebow. Why wouldn't they do it??
Mainly system. Steelers run Erhart-Perkins. Here are the teams that run EP: Patriots, Broncos, Giants, Steelers, Panthers, and Chargers. Common trend = accomplished passer. Not a system for a game manager or a dual threat QB. Also primarily built on play action under center, which is style least suited to Tim's game. Little pistol or spread, and no read option in the playbook for Big Ben.
But good point on the match with Vick, especially the left handedness.
Am hearing now that Ben is out "at least 4 weeks", which would not create an opportunity anyways. Will see more after the MRI tomorrow, but sounds like the physical exam was not as bad as the photos made it look.
Ok: That's a fair point although it would be good to see them adapt their playbook to accomodate a proven winner like Tebow as opposed to hiring one of the known commodoties who have never produced anything.
That aside not on the list that run Erhart-Perkins are: Bears,Skins,Cowboys,Dolphins,& Niners plus several more.. Some of these teams should be embarrased by the QB play they are putting out there. Would they rather lose than give Tim a chance to play??? That's mind boggling to me. What's the point of competing.
Someone has to have the stones to recognize this dynamic & make the necessary corrections.
We were all a little disappointed yesterday & if you are like me a reason for hope might be in order.
Well I don't know if it means much but check out this video of Shawne Merriman. He thinks Tim will be back in the league this year based on how good he looked in the preseason.
tmz.com/2015/09/28/shawne-merriman-tim-tebow-nfl
What I liked about this interview other than the positive content was his attitude. He did not seem like a BS kind of a guy. It's not much but I will take it.
Interesting point about Johnny Unitas who BTW has something in common with Tim Tebow. Johnny was released by the Steelers before he became a big star with the Colts.
Would it not be great to see history repeat itself.
The narrative about having to make all kinds of concessions for Tebow is growing old & stale. He proved he could throw accurately in preseason & he has already proved he can win.
Let the tidbits keep piling up. Someone will take notice eventually & give him a REAL opportunity!
I agree. Though this article also illustrates the risks of such a move. When the offense fails to move, the blame falls on the QB. Even when the supporting cast is a bunch of scrubs, the headline would still read "Tim Tebow can't even play in reject league."
But as you stated earlier its better than not playing at all. If injuries keep piling up and coaches are making desperation calls toward the end of the season it's almost a guarantee that Freeman will get a call before Tim.
Dear Lord, it's so painful to watch Fitzy play. To hell with his 50 Wonderlic and all that, he's such an uneventful football player. He's like a toaster without the final toast popping up to your delight.
Jets have a decent receiving corp, though.
And what a dumpster fire the Dolphins are. They look like they hate each other and hate their QB the most.
Skins are not a good team. If Chip loses this one, he is going to be under pressure to make concrete moves and hold someone accountable. Bradford could be at risk of being benched next week.
I'm giddy with anticipation of Eagles being 1-4 after next week. How many tweets do you think we would see reminding Chip that Tebow took a 1-4 team to the playoffs?
Looks like Chip has painted himself into a corner with Bradford. He was brilliant for a few drives, just enough for himself and his coaches and the media to spread the blame elsewhere. But at the end of the day he's not the right fit for the offense (honestly and truly Sanchez is a better option at this point); and besides that it takes more than showcasing your brilliance in perfect circumstances to hustle a win in a game that rarely sees perfect circumstances. Rather it takes the kind of guts and gumption that we just saw from Cousins and Garcon. It takes being able to rescue a broken play from a steaming dung pile and turning *that* into something brilliant, or even serviceable, again and again and again for sixty minutes. Aside from those few flashes of brilliance, all we've seen again and again and again from Bradford is a bunch of check downs.
I agree with most of your take Kathryn. I would add Bradford also missed alot of wide open recievers & has little to no feel for the pass rush. That last drive where they only needed a field goal with all their timeouts left. Case in point.
The book on Bradford is pretty well written in stone by now. As Dilfer said, he plays great in a clean pocket but could never handle when the pocket breaks down. And that was before he blew his knee out twice.
Chip's fatal error was failing to invest in an O-line to keep his pocket clean. He tried to economize, and now injuries and lack of depth have left Sam playing behind scrubs.
In listening to Chip's comments this morning I am not sure he sees it this way. He seems to think its a matter of execution & not talent.
I don't like the chatter that we are hearing from the coaches or the players, fingers are beginning to get pointed. DeMarco was complaining he wasn't getting the ball enough, Bradford said expectations from preseason are gone etc.. There seems to be a lack of leadership & focus. IMO the ship has sprung some leaks that need to be adressed quickly & I am not sure their approach is the right one.
If you have not watched Ron Jaworski's play-by-play critique of Tim's last game, it's a must watch:
ReplyDeletelong video
Warning: it will leave you even more bewildered than ever at recent events.
Chip made it clear that he thinks Tim needs to play somewhere. Jaws was emphatic that Tim needs to play somewhere. Common theme.
ReplyDeleteHere's a thought: if you are Chip Kelly, you know you would only use Tim if Bradford or Sanchez is injured. If that happens, what would you rather Tim have been doing: running your scout squad, or starting in the CFL?
Ed: The answer to the question you posed above is definetely starting in the CFL. If that is indeed what they were thinking then one positive thing we may be able to derive from the release is that they were viewing Tim as 100% quarterback & 0% gadget guy. IMO that is better for all involved.
DeleteIt was really good to hear Jaws be so complimentary of Tim. Especially the points he made about being impressed with Tim throughout the whole preseason & he showed enough to get another chance in the future somewhere.
Great find on that video.
ReplyDeleteThe first and third plays that he breaks down are the two plays that all the talking heads at the NFL Network & ESPN use to indicate Tim can't deliver the ball like an NFL QB. Jaws called both plays catchable balls. Granted the first play, he says that Tim could have waited a beat or two for his TE to break free.
Still watching video. Ron
Wow. Worth watching every minute of that breakdown by Jaws. Jaws has been one of Tim's most vocal critics over the years; this breakdown of his represents real progress by Tim. Thanks for posting. Ron.
ReplyDeleteWatched it before work in a hurry. Will not watch it again. After that performance by Tim, I don't need Jaws to tell me how well Tim played. I take little solace in this being made or posted by him. He can go kick a rock and proclaim another HOF career for Colin Kaepernick for all I care. This is nothing but a weird make up sex proposition by Jaws after ripping Tim a new one at every chance possible. Thank you, but I would pass.
ReplyDeleteThat he did it at all comes across to me as a good faith effort to be fair and objective towards Tim; and his history as a strong critic makes his analysis all the more credible. It would go a lot further if he would continue this discussion in his television appearances, though I don't know if he's had the opportunity to yet. At any rate it's one of a couple of good signs that the cadre of establishment NFL experts that have rejected Tim with such hyperbole all these years are perhaps beginning to realize that they've effectively bullied a legitimate player out of a career. Another sign is that the volume of rhetoric on the topic has substantially declined compared to when Tim was released by New England. Aside from a few holdouts that are never going to budge there are a lot fewer cheap shots and opportunistic, click-baiting jabs in response to this latest move; I suspect because it leaves a lot of people bewildered even if they don't want to admit it.
DeleteLastly, the public isn't buying it wholesale like they used to. They watched on Thursday night along with the "experts" and they know what they saw: Tim Tebow clearly and unequivocally handing Matt Barkley his ass on a platter. They were already told not to believe their lying eyes three seasons ago and are not as willing to go along with that this time. So they're not allowing the clowns that are still trying to pimp this situation for cheap laughs to drag them into it. Yesterday I pointed out the tired act unfolding over beneath the First Take circus tent. If you had followed it on twitter you would have seen very few people laughing along with Stephen A Smith's "can't throw" hissy fit. Even if some people want to believe it, they can't.
I am fully aware of that Kathryn. And we have came to this situation because of the over scrutinizing QB that did nothing well and succeeded only because he "believed". And defense. And kicker. Nothing to do with his league best 4th Q QBR or stuff like that. Now we will have a bunch of "experts", Mike Freeman et al. that have said that he is HORRIBLE and don't belong in the NFL, will sprinkle their tweets of approval, and it's all good Tim, we're all good now. Now you can throw. I guess the world functions in the ways of "first to spit, first to shake hand, first to take a picture with" kind of way. All good.
DeleteThe convo about Tim was never about what he CAN do, it was always what he CAN'T and WILL NEVER do as a NFL QB. It just bothers me, to this day. Even when I see things like this, I take it with a grain of salt.
And I would love to be in Tim's shoes right now. He has a world in front of him, and what ever he chooses, he will not make a bad choice for himself. I can't think of a braver thing to do in a players career to do, than what he did. The best college QB of all time RELEARNED how to throw a football. If that alone is not the most terrifying thing to admit to the greater public, going to CFL would be like taking a piss in the morning right after you woke up.
I really like Sam Bradford as a person and feel he deserved this opportunity with the Eagles after a run of bad luck with injuries; however the news that he is no longer negotiating a contract extension so that he can ask for more at the end of the season is disappointing to me.
ReplyDeletehttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/09/report-sam-bradford-and-eagles-no-longer-talking-contract/
It happens all the time, but is nevertheless hard to watch the more fortunate guys take for granted what they have.
I just commented somewhere in the ways of this: "after one good preseason half!? LOL"
DeleteI hope everyone on Eagles roster tears their ACL's. Even the coaches and their entire scouting department. I don't care. I don't a good bone in me regarding all of this crap.
*don't have a good bone
DeleteYeah, we're angry too but I can't imagine coaches here (or in the CFL for that matter) being too keen on signing a player that - through no fault of his own - brings along a hoard of fans that hope the rest of their players get injured.
DeleteI agree. This was on the spur of the moment. I'm back at my cognitive self.
DeleteAs a matter of principle of course I wish them all well, especially Bradford who has shown no ill will and seems to be exhibiting great character by attempting grueling comebacks in 2 consecutive years. Lots of guys would have hung up the spurs.
DeleteBut part of me secretly wishes Bradford gets hurt, Sanchez implodes, and Chip plays most of the season with a rotating cast of rejects, finishing low enough to have no hope for the playoffs but too high to get a good draft pick. 7-9 sounds about right. Gets fired, goes back to college, and spends his days watching Tebow highlight tapes and wondering "what if?"
The other part of me can't shake the conclusion that Chip actually did the right thing for Tim, for the right reasons, and that someday we'll look back on this as a necessary step in his comeback process.
Apparently Mark Schlereth offered some sort of mea culpa on his podcast today. I am unable to listen to it at this time so I can't confirm or provide any context (earnest / sarcastic / etc.) Linked below if anyone has the curiosity or stomach for it.
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/markschlereth/status/641593063677280256
No mea culpa. He was being sarcastic. Big time.
DeleteBrooke just told me the same thing. Oh well. We'll chalk him up as emotionally fixed on his opinion. At the very least it demonstrates by contrast the far more objective, and I would argue ethical perspective that Jaws has taken.
DeleteAmong other things, he has called him the single worst QB he has seen in person. If you don't need to listen to it, don't. I can't have those 5 mins back.
DeleteAnd also referred to us as, among other things, 'parasites'. I've long suspected it's personal w/Schlereth, but I don't know why it would be. Anyway, Sal Pal did an interview on ESPN radio that was much better & in which he mentioned the 'D' word-Distraction. The Tebow part starts at about 4:40 mins:
Deletehttp://m.espn.go.com/general/play?id=13601360
As of this afternoon, Tim's still in Scottsdale, AZ:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.gramfeed.com/eatzinburger
Tim just tweeted he is back with SEC Network.
ReplyDeleteBye all, it was fun while it lasted.
Wow.
ReplyDeleteI only have one question. Why the hassle!? Why invest two years of your life into remaking yourself as a thrower and then not using it at all!? It's almost like, learning French for two years, dreaming about going to France, visiting Eiffel tower and then going to gamble to Vegas instead. I have no words. I'm in shock. I don't care if any team picks him up this year. And I don't even know why I'm butt hurt about this, but I am. And I shouldn't be. It's stupid.
ReplyDeleteI feel the same way. Was in awe at his perseverance. Now, not so much.
DeleteBye all. Thanks again Ed for hosting this forum.
ReplyDeletePlease bring back 'Over Forty Athlete' Blogspot if we hear Tim has signed with the 'Philadelphia Soul' Arena Football Team in March of 2016 ... :-)
I'll leave it up for a while, on the odd chance something wild happens. You all are welcome to continue to use for your purposes. But I won't be putting any effort into it, and I'll probably take it off the air next spring at the latest. Certainly not going to become a rabid fan of a television personality.
DeleteI suppose there's a slim chance that he remains open to the CFL but not open to jumping in the deep end mid-season, particularly when the team that holds his rights is a raging dumpster fire. He may be interested in giving it a shot next year, especially after spending another season watching other guys play ball from the sidelines. Again, a slim chance. Not statistically zero, but close.
ReplyDeleteIf it happens I'll tune in again, but I'm not going to waste any more time or interest on this in the meantime. The scenario above notwithstanding, he's basically just announced his retirement.
Chip was very clear. He needs to be playing somewhere. He chose not to play.
DeleteHere's the upsetting thing to me. Realistically speaking, these deals take a little time to negotiate. The lawyers were off on Monday. That means he was released on Saturday, and first thing Tuesday morning started the process of signing with ESPN. He didn't even give it a friggin' chance.
I would bet that if he felt he was getting a fair shake from Chip he would have taken his advice & played somewhere. He probably felt he was being railroaded AGAIN. I can't say that I blame him.
DeleteDoes his SEC contract say anything about an out clause or has he said anything verbally about playing again.
You're kidding, right!? He's been "railroaded" since being dealt by Broncos, maybe even during that season. But he has done one great thing and a dozen of crappy ones. And the one thing that has him looking better at last, passing better at last, he's kicking it to the curb so he could feel great being Tim Tebow again. He can take his out clause and hope 2014 Arizona Cardinals happen again, and then again Ryan Lindley's of the world will get a chance sooner than him. God bless.
DeleteWe really don't have enough information to draw that conclusion, or any conclusion. We don't know what his options are. We don't know if the CFL wants him right now or would rather wait until later. We don't know if he wants to wait for a new season with the CFL so he has time to learn a new system and their style of play in practice. We don't know if he read the writing on the wall weeks ago and started engaging his lawyers then just in case. We don't know if he needs the cash flow - he has gone without a salary all year and nine weeks in the CFL isn't going to come close to making that up. We don't know the details and obligations in his network contract. We don't know what Sexton is telling him. We don't know if he has reasonable expectations of getting a call from another team this season.
DeleteAnd we certainly don't know what it's like to get slapped in the face again and again in front of the entire country. If he has decided to retire it's disappointing, yes, but lets remember where the core of our frustration and anger lies.
And with all due respect to all involved and to you all, I don't want to know. He's been so calculating, even shrewd about all of this, it's laughable. If you love football, and will play if for free (as Cooper said about Tim the other day), you play it everywhere and where they want you.
DeleteWell said Kathryn :)
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Delete"Here's the upsetting thing to me. Realistically speaking, these deals take a little time to negotiate. The lawyers were off on Monday. That means he was released on Saturday, and first thing Tuesday morning started the process of signing with ESPN. He didn't even give it a friggin' chance."
DeleteWhy would it take time to negotiate? The way I've always understood his contract's out clause was that it simply enabled him to leave to go play football if the opportunity presented itself. But if it didn't work out, he'd just come back & work under the same 3-year deal he signed in 12/13. If he didn't go to CFL or some other league, I think he's contractually obligated to go back to SECN or be in breach of contract.
I'm not upset about this, b/c I'm sure Tim has info about the CFL/Alouettes that I don't have. He spent TWO YEARS of his life, even moving to miserable L.A. for about a year, to try to get in football again, so I can't imagine he's turning down CFL or other leagues lightly.
There's another possibility here, too. Tim might have reached the conclusion-and not w/out good reason-that he'll never get a fair shot in the NFL, so what's the point anymore? If he's truly given up & considers himself 'retired', the NFL establishment-including most of the commentators, analysts, etc-having repeatedly screwed him over for the past 5 years has to be at the top of the reasons why he's thrown in the towel. If that's the case, I really can't blame him.
I saw a stat the other day that really caught my attention.
DeleteIn the Super Bowl Era there have been 3 quarterbacks to throw for over 300 yards without an interception & also run for a touchdown in a playoff game. Montana, Rogers & Tebow.
This is the guy that the league & a coach without a playoff win tells us is not good enough to play 3rd string & has to sit behind a guy without a winning record or a playoff win & also sit behind another guy that he defeated in a head to head matchup. Then gets cut for a guy that has never played a down in the NFL.
We all know that it is more complicated than this. But is it really???
Tim received $8.7M guaranteed from the Broncos, and another $2M from the Jets. He was the poster boy for Jockey briefs for 2 years. Nobody knows how much ESPN paid him, but there was reportedly a bidding war for his services, and considering that Skip and SAS make several million $ a year, I would expect Tim's compensation to be similar. So conservatively, he has made a minimum of $10M in his career, and maybe as high as $20M. He has extensive business investments in Florida, including several successful PDQ restaurants and gyms. He regularly hobnobs with billionaires who no doubt share investment tips.
DeleteIf he needs cash flow, then his ass needs to go buy some Dave Ramsey books.
ITA there is a lot of unknown information. There could be mitigating explanations. He could be contractually obligated. His "out" might have only covered the NFL, not the CFL. There might still be some hidden scheme. Maybe he is still negotiating with the NFL or with the CFL. Maybe ESPN offered him a huge sack of dollars to do one game. I wouldn't be surprised at the latter ... the publicity this saturday is going to be insane.
But as I've said numerous times before, I take things at face value and I take people at their word. Tim said his dream was to play football. Chip said his throwing had improved and he needed to get live reps in games. Tim has chosen a path away from getting live reps in games. We can come up with a zillion ways to rationalize it, but until something happens to prove otherwise, the face value interpretation is that Tim gave up. I hope I'm wrong.
Well said Kathryn. If the CFL or the AFL (Arena) are of interest to Tebow; the last thing he'd want to do is get on the field 'cold' without knowing the nuances of the league and the team's playbook, let alone some practice time with the WR's and OL. The reason, he'd be skewered by the press, north and south of the Canadian border.
DeleteIf this is the case, the only other 'non-NFL' option would be for Tebow to play AFL in March, 2016 or target CFL later in 2016. I would personally love for him to pursue playing in the CFL and/or AFL with full training camps leading up to the season.
The NFL missed a great opportunity these last 3 years.
Regards, Ron
Forgot one ... maybe he decided to play AFL instead of CFL. Season starts next spring.
DeleteBut if I was managing Tim's comeback, I would do BOTH. Go play CFL right now. There are teams that need a starter and would doubtlessly hire him and put him on the field next week. Risky yeah, but less risky than wearing a dapper tie on ESPN if your goal is to play professional football. The risk of not playing football on ESPN is 100%.
"This is the guy that the league & a coach without a playoff win tells us is not good enough to play 3rd string & has to sit behind a guy without a winning record or a playoff win & also sit behind another guy that he defeated in a head to head matchup. Then gets cut for a guy that has never played a down in the NFL."
DeleteExactly. I can't blame Tim if he's decided he can't trust the words or judgement of anyone in the NFL any more.
That's right Brooke. He never complained about being run out of Denver. Subjected himself to being punt protector then was passed over by the 3rd string Quarterback in NY. Then shows the NFL world once again this past Thu. that he deserves to be much more than a 3rd string QB but will accept this in a good faith effort to make the team.
DeleteNow he is supposed to listen to these same people tell him to "go get reps". He should be the one telling them where to go.
Totally agree, Bob. I hate the idea that I might never get to see Tim play again, and that he never shut up the haters once & for all. But I can completely understand why he would hang it up at this point.
DeleteHe's going to have to address his plans. He's going to get asked about it in every interview. Non-answer answers will only get him so far. Former players and staff will also talk, and rumors will be leaked. At some point we'll get some insight.
DeleteI can think of one scenario that gets Tim back in the NFL: season-ending injury to Bradford and Sanchez. Before you dismiss that as wildly improbable, consider that is exactly what happened to Arizona last year. Palmer and Stanton were both injured, so AZ signed Ryan Lindley. He had been cut at the end of their camp, so he knew the playbook.
So there's that.
While I'm talking myself into one more hit off the crack pipe: maybe Tim declined to go the CFL because no team would offer him a contract with an exit clause if the NFL called, and he thinks there might still be a chance. Like Kathryn says, maybe Sexton is getting whispers of interest.
Damn, I did it. Fell off the wagon.
"I can think of one scenario that gets Tim back in the NFL: season-ending injury to Bradford and Sanchez. Before you dismiss that as wildly improbable..."
DeleteI don't think that's improbable at all. Bradford is fragile physically and Sanchez is fragile mentally. It's very plausible that Chip needs to bring in another QB at some point and that could be why Tim isn't rushing into another league.
There's one thing I do like about the SEC/ESPN gig: I've seen many people on sm basically say they considered Tim to be a joke until they saw him work as an analyst. The general tone of those comments is usually that they still think he can't play in the NFL, but they do respect his football acumen. For someone who's been mischaracterized as a Forrest Gump-type character-even by some of his own fans-getting taken seriously where football's concerned is important.
OK, did some reading. CFL teams generally do not allow NFL escape clauses during the season, only at contract options. So if Tim went to the CFL now he would probably be bound to stay in the CFL at least through November.
ReplyDeleteThat does change the calculus slightly. If he thinks there is a chance other teams will consider him as injuries take their toll, then maybe staying here is a viable path.
I still don't like the ESPN gig, though. I'd rather he lock himself in AZ and train the whole season.
If the Eagles do not start out strongly things can begin to go downhill this year very quickly. Chip could lose the locker room right out of the gate.
DeleteHe made alot of controversial moves & he needs to show results right away. If he based cutting Tim on the attention he was getting rather than on his production on the field it could be a mistake he will regret.
I am holding out hope but I am feeling a bit foolish thinking one of these teams will call Tim. He should be on a roster right now. There are no good reasons why he isn't.
"OK, did some reading. CFL teams generally do not allow NFL escape clauses during the season, only at contract options. So if Tim went to the CFL now he would probably be bound to stay in the CFL at least through November."
DeleteApparently, the NFL also forbids signing a player the same year they've played for the CFL. From the 2011 CBA:
"Article 20 Sec 1 CFL Rule
No club may sign a player who in the same year has been under contract to a Canadian Football League club at the end of that CFL club’s season (regular season or post season whichever is applicable)."
So if he went to the CFL now, in the middle of a miserable season for the Alouettes, he'd be stuck there. He wouldn't be eligible to be on an NFL team until next season. If Tim has any momentum for being signed by a desperate NFL team, it's now-when he's just impressed people w/his performance in that 4th ps game. By next season, Tim will be forgotten about in the NFL again. I now absolutely think Tim's making the right decision to return to SECN/ESPN.
This is a great find, Brooke.
DeleteGood find Brooke! I agree, that casts the CFL decision in an entirely new light. It certainly was not the slam dunk obvious choice I viewed it as, which means that Tim has not necessarily given up.
DeleteI still think the CFL was worth serious consideration, even if it precluded the NFL this season.
At the end of the day, there is only one good reason not to go to the CFL tomorrow: because he thinks he has a real shot to get back in the NFL this year. Since we don't know what Sexton is hearing, we'll just have to hope this decision is based on a realistic assessment of his chances, and not on pride, money, distrust, etc.
Hopefully he will either say something publicly, or telegraph his intentions through his actions. If he makes a point of continuing his workouts and throwing, and yes keeps visiting Tom House, then there is hopen yet. If he starts popping up on Good Morning America and other nonsense, that suggests maybe he is putting football behind him.
I don't think we should get discouraged if he's on GMA. I think the GMA stuff is a part of his SECN/ESPN responsibilities, even though it's probably a separate contract. ABC is owned by Disney, just like ESPN/SECN & Tim only went on there during football season. I've always assumed the GMA gig was mostly a way that Disney was having him promote the fledgling SECN. They'll probably find other ways for him to do that this season, too.
DeleteSomething else to keep an eye on is if ESPN eventually moves Greg McElroy from SEC Nation to another assignment, which would not prove but at least suggest that they believe Tim is there to stay for the season. For now they're leaving him put.
DeleteWell the financial consideration was just one of many variables I had offered to demonstrate just how little we know about what informed his decision. Scoff at it all you want but the point remains: what we know could fit into a teaspoon while what we don't know could fill the Grand Canyon. And until we know more it might be fair to suggest we put the brakes on characterizing the man as a calculating disappointment.
ReplyDeleteSomething we have yet to take into consideration is the human element. A little amusing to me that this weekend he went out for burgers. The man is a committed health nut - the annoying kind that thinks lettuce is a dessert and brings a container of wheat germ along to restaurants. Not saying I can read the guy but mowing down a burger strikes me as his equivalent of a chick diving face-first into a half gallon of mocha fudge ice cream after getting dumped.
For all we know he believed he'd earned that roster spot just as we had, so imagine not only the heartbreak of losing it at the eleventh hour but the morale-crushing beatdown of hearing your coach effectively tell the rest of the league not to bother. I think in spite of the brave face he offers the public this one really hurt. We like to think he lets the disappointment roll off his back but he's only human. Note that he didn't promise to fight on as he did two years ago when he thanked New England for the opportunity. I think he's reeling a bit and retreating to familiar territory right now, to a place with supportive friends and colleagues where he can occupy himself with work as he considers his options going forward.
I think it's possible that he has not yet given up on the CFL (or arena), and just as possible that he thinks it's a bad idea to go now, for reasons already well-covered in this discussion. No one knows what Tim Tebow needs to succeed as a player better than Tim Tebow. It took him some time to start getting comfortable with the Eagles' playbook, and there's nothing wrong with that. Jumping into the cauldron in Montreal now would likely have resulted in disaster with everyone watching.
All the same I'll end this observation as I started it: we don't know. Face value suggests the next time he's asked he'll confirm that he's retired.
But since when have we let face value get in our way in here?
"A little amusing to me that this weekend he went out for burgers."
DeleteNot only burgers, but fries, too. The carbs in the bun on the burger & in the fries is probably more carbs than Tim has had for the past month. While it's not necessarily a sign of Tim retiring, it's certainly a sign of his going off his ultra-strict low-carb regimen...if only for 1 meal.
^^ Clearly it takes a couple of women to delve down into the most profound and insightful analysis ;-D
DeleteFurther discussion is unnecessary, people. The burger theory reigns!
LOL. It might not mean anything, though. He's said before that he does allow himself to cheat on his diet occasionally w/foods he especially likes. It's probably nothing more than that: a treat.
DeleteIt occurred to me that the FXFL would be idiots not to consider waiving their eligibility requirements to invite Tim to join. They are a fall developmental league and unofficial feeder league for the NFL. Only players out of college for three years or less are eligible to participate at this time; however they had substantial revenue problems last year and are struggling to gain a foothold on the public's imagination. Signing Tim would eradicate both problems, though as always it would invite the prospect of too much attention and a level of fan expectations that coaches may not want to deal with. And the point of the three-year limit is to prevent vets from using the league to resurrect their careers: think Chad Johnson and Brady Quinn. I think Tim might have a case for an exception however as he was never properly developed in the first place.
ReplyDeleteAdmittedly it's a spectacularly long shot for a lot of reasons, but when even the CFL feels as far away as the sun what difference does it make?
This seems like a lot of words spoken/written about a game a person plays. Contracts, eligibility, going broke, not going broke, keeping his options open, lesser of two evils, calculating, what are agents telling him, his parents, brother etc etc etc.
ReplyDeleteI have been told this. Tim loves playing football. It was said from him a couple of times this preseason that he would basically play it for free, that when he's without football it hurts to live how much he misses it. And he decides NOT TO PLAY IT.
People, what are you talking about!? Tim has played his last game of competitive football on January 8, 2012. That was the 3:16 game. The next one wasn't competitive at all and Tim was hurt. That's three and a half years, Tim has played his last real game, in real game planed live action. How about we remove the pick glasses and start taking it for what it is. Tim needs playing time. When Tim does his TV crap, he's not playing. Tim does not need to do his TV crap to live the good life. I'm sure he has plenty and enough. TIM NEEDS TO PLAY.
And can we be real once and for all, they'll sooner sign Ryan Lindley AGAIN than pick up the phone to call Tim's agent. If you say that I don't know that for a fact, you haven't been paying attention the last couple of years.
*pink glasses
DeleteHall of famer Steve Young did not start playing until he was 30 years old. Tim has already proven he is more than capable of playing in this league as recently as 1 week ago. If they sign Ryan Lindley again before calling Tim's it has nothing to do with playing capability.
DeleteThats what last weeks release proved once again.
Steve Young played 30 years ago. And he played 2 seasons in USFL and 2 in NFL before joining SF. He wasn't a 3rd stringer ever and is probably the most accurate passing QB to play the game. Really!? Steve Young comparison!? And that was 25 years ago. How about we go to realistic comparisons for once!? Tim can't hold Steve's water for what it's worth, and it's a known commodity that Steve likes Tim quite a bit much. Steve Young? REALLY?
DeleteAnd I have heard myself from Steve Young pleading with him to get live reps wherever. Whenever. Wherever. No matter the result. For Tim, live reps are necessary. He has to slow the game for himself, to get a feel for live bodies flying around him and throwing in live game situations.
DeleteAnd to this day I don't understand, why would a non retired NFL player ever do a TV thing that would restrict his playing ability anywhere. If Tim needs money, I'm sure that there would be an easily make-able kickstarter fund that would gather couple of mil in a heartbeat.
Let's put it this way because I don't know how else to put it. He worked his ass off, got his shot, did everything he was supposed to do, succeeded, and was still cut. He's entitled to take his time to weigh all the advice he's been given, examine his options and think things through; and is absolutely under no obligation to immediately jump headfirst and blindfolded into a giant, flaming unknown just because his fans and the press are impatient.
DeleteThe Alouettes are a raging dumpster fire right now. Their coaches are untested, their GM is throwing crap at the wall, their offense is suffering an identity crisis of midlife proportions, and their season is going down in flames. And, no, Tim is not going to walk into that and magically turn it around. I'm sorry but that's a fantasy. He has zero experience with the CFL game, zero familiarity with their playbook, zero rapport with the team, and zero relationship with the coaches. At this stage he would be viewed as nothing but another burden, a media-magnet that can't read defenses and that they'd have to shoehorn into the rest of the bedlam just to shut his goddamned fans up. He would walk into that situation and fall flat on his face. At that point you might as well chisel the epitaph on the tombstone of his playing career: "Here lies Tim Tebow's career in football. It stepped on the gas instead of the break 'cuz Skip Bayless told him Chip Kelly's a snake!"
Other guys can afford to fail. Other guys can get away with struggling in the 'minors' for months and even years at a time while they develop because no one is paying attention. He can't fly under the radar like that. Everyone will be there watching, and scrutinizing, and tweeting replays of every single mistake because he's Tim Tebow. And every single tweet, every single article, every second of airtime devoted to him will spin into a black hole of media hype that threatens to swallow the team.
He has to play well enough that the coaches believe he's worth the headache. If he's going to get up again, dust himself off again, and give it one more go then he's got to give himself every chance for success. Going to Montreal may be the answer, but running there in a panic is not.
And I say 'if' because for all we know he's concluded he's finally had it with this carrot-and-stick act. And if in your eyes that eradicates all of the work and perseverance that he's put forth to date then he'll just have to live with that.
He has done this his whole life. Listened to his agents, calculated all along, listened to everyone but himself.
DeleteJust for once I wanted to see Tim be of the field the likes he is no the field and say: "FUCK IT, IMMA PLAY AND FUCK THEM ALL TOO"
But yeah, he can go the route he's taken and the one you as well think it's the right path.
Maybe he's waiting for Meyer to make the transition to NFL.
"He has done this his whole life. Listened to his agents, calculated all along, listened to everyone but himself."
DeleteExcept that's not true. Throughout Tim's youth, his dad tried to get him to pursue becoming a pro baseball player, instead of a pro football player & Tim said no. Throughout his entire life, people have been telling him to switch from QB to some other position. Tim's not only always said no, but has been so determined to stay a QB that it resulted in him & his mom moving to that apt for 3 years of his high school football playing years & has resulted in him being out of the NFL for 2 years. Watch that clip of Tim in 'Everything in Between' when he was meeting w/Jimmy Sexton to determine whether or not he wanted Sexton to be his agent. He was very assertive & knew exactly what he wanted, & didn't want, in an agent. Tim has his own mind-he's the one calling the shots in his life. Sometimes his decisions are baffling, but I do now believe they've always been *his* decisions, not anyone else's.
ITA & well said, Kathryn.
DeleteThis is interesting re the CFL Negotiation Lists ( https://cfldb.ca/faq/rosters/ ):
ReplyDelete"If a fair contract offer is received, but rejected, the player is removed from the list one year from the offer date."
and "The CFL's negotiation lists are secret, shared amongst teams and the league office only and are not public. From time to time media reports will name additions and deletions to negotiations lists, but complete lists are held private among the CFL head office and member clubs."
I have read mixed reports on whether or not Tim remains on the Alouettes' negotiation list. I wonder if any reporter has confirmed through sources whether TT is still on the list, or if they are just assuming so based on old information? Presuming a 'fair contract offer' had been received before Tim, with his bags packed, decided to decline, then again presumably he would have been released from the Alouettes list by now. It kind of makes you wonder if he went through with the negotiations just to get an offer so he could reject it and get off their list.
He's probably still on their list, but this is just a fun wrinkle to consider.
Something else in that CBA ^^^
DeleteTeams have 10 days to respond once a player notifies them of a negotiation window. If the team does not respond within that time the player drops off their list.
I'm wondering if being on CFL team's negotiation list is the same thing as having draft rights to a player. What I've always heard is that the Alouettes still retain Tim's draft rights.
DeleteThe CFL uses the negotiation list system in place of a draft, so that is what people are talking about when they say the Al's have TT's draft rights. The question however is do they still? The Al's would have lost them recently if an offer was made and rejected last year at around this time, and as far as I know no one has exactly called them to confirm anything.
DeleteThe CFL mechanics are interesting. My initial reaction was based on the assumption that there were no legal obstacles to going to the CFL immediately. It appears there are both obstacles and potential negative consequences. I agree, not something to leap into.
DeleteKathryn, I don't necessarily agree with your assertion that Tim could not be immediately successful in the CFL. Most players in the CFL are lower tier athletes who never smelled the NFL. With Tim's experience and athletic ability, he would be at least functional right away, with the chance to dominate over time. The differences are far less than the similarities, and some of the differences favor Tim.
But it's pointless to debate that, because it is a hypothetical that will not happen. I'm not interested in pondering Tim's childhood, his psyche, or his finances any more. Like Luzwei, I just want to see him play football and I don't care much where.
I've said it before; I hate watching him as an analyst. I change the channel when he comes on. I also think he has a terrible TV presence, with a squeaky voice and frantic manner. Like a chipmunk on cocaine and steroids.
I'll be watching the Eagles and rooting for blitzing and low hits. Yeah, I'm a bad person now.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree on that, but as always I respect your opinion.
DeleteDon't get me wrong, I really don't want to be taken for some kind of rebel or anything of that sort, wishing Tim would just flip everyone not caring about his persona or appearance.
DeleteEd diagnosed it correctly. I just wanna see him play football, run peope over, throw 40Y darts, pump fist in the air. And I would say this from word to word exactly.
"I've said it before; I hate watching him as an analyst. I change the channel when he comes on. I also think he has a terrible TV presence, with a squeaky voice and frantic manner. Like a chipmunk on cocaine and steroids. "
And this.
"I'll be watching the Eagles and rooting for blitzing and low hits. Yeah, I'm a bad person now."
And I don't care anymore. I've been nice about this for the last 3 years. No more.
There are a few questions I have been asking myself & thought maybe some of you could offer some suggestions to hopefully give me some clarity.
ReplyDeleteAs of this moment knowing what we know if you were in Tim's shoes would you:
A) Go back to the NFL if a team made an offer?
B) Would you do so without condition?
C) Are their any teams you would decline the offer from?
D) If you did chhose to accept an offer with certain conditions. What would those conditions be?
A) Yes
DeleteB) Yes
C) No
D) n/a
I'm a cheap date.
Concur except for D. One non-negotiable condition: he's a quarterback.
DeleteAgreed. Look where switching positions got Terrelle Pryor. Released today.
DeleteBob are you on twitter?
DeleteNo but I am on Facebook & Ed is on my friend list. I have thought about twitter I read tweets all the time. Just haven't done it.
DeleteAh, gotcha. Well if you ever get an account look me up.
DeleteWill do. :)
DeleteDepressing to go 2 days without any TT discussion. Not ready to give it up yet.
ReplyDeleteWith him jumping right back into the media spotlight, I have to assume someone will ask him something about it. Would be very interesting to parse his words to get a feel for his intent. Maybe he won't say anything because he hasn't decided. If he does say something, please post it here. I unfollowed everything NFL related on Twitter so I'm in the dark.
Supposedly the CBA says any player on the roster as of the opening game has their salary guaranteed, while those signed afterwards can be paid week-by-week. Can anyone confirm? I fully expected the Eagles to put Steven Morris on the practice squad this week after working him out. If the rule about guaranteed salary is true, and they choose to keep Morris on the active roster for Monday, that is a devastating insult to Tim.
Speaking of insults, Chip Kelly's comments at the press conference on Saturday really perplex me. I'm trying to think of any coach has ever described a player as "not good enough" after cutting him. Even though that is the implicit judgement for most players who are cut, usually the coach explains it with coach-speak non-answers and some rah rah pep talk. Why would Chip say such unusually harsh things about someone who he appears to respect personally? I advocate taking people at face value, but I can't resist speculating on possible ulterior motives:
1. Send Tim a clear message that he really needs to give up
2. End media speculation and questions about bringing him back
3. Discourage other teams from pursuing him so he will be available later
#1 is of course sad and horrifying. #2 is the most probable. #3 is wishful thinking, but cannot be totally ruled out until we see if the Eagles finalize that 53rd roster spot. Hence my questions about Morris and when the roster is locked in.
Chip could have sent Tim a clear message that he should give up when he talked to him privately, so that eliminates #1 for me.
Delete"Why would Chip say such unusually harsh things about someone who he appears to respect personally?"
That's what hasn't made any sense to me all along. Add to that sentence "especially right after Tim had played so well in a preseason game that many people were even thinking Tim could compete for the backup role". And, add to the mix how Belichick treated releasing Tim. BB said nothing but good things, yet apparently never had any intention of bringing him back. And Chip is also supposedly buddies w/Urban Meyer like BB. When you combine all that w/Chip's supposedly advising Tim to go to the CFL, along w/the CFL & NFL rules that we now know would prevent Tim from being available for the NFL this season, I come up w/2 possibilities: #2 &/or, for some reason, Chip had taken an extreme personal dislike to Tim & wanted to publicly insult him. I can't imagine the latter being the case, though. However, if Chip didn't actually tell Tim to go to the CFL-if he just said that to the media-, then I lean towards delusional #3.
As for Morris, I vaguely recall at least 1 reporter writing that he's there to be the #3, not on the PS. But that person could be wrong, as could my memory.
There is no doubt that the release & the aftermath have been tough to deal with & make sense of. It has taken away my enthusiasm for the upcoming season. I really don't even want to watch any games but I know I will. Just like the last few seasons I watch these games rooting for certain teams to lose as opposed to rooting for a team to win & this while gratifying at times makes watching alot less fun.
DeleteAs rotten as the release was I am able to take two silver linings away from it.
1) Tim played so well that he was able to regain some much needed confidence in himself & his new throwing abilities. After what hapened with the Jets & then his unsure performance with New England I thought he had lost some of his confidence & this game went a long way towards restoring it. Should he decide to play again.
2) If you listen to Chips comments from his press conference he gets very annoyed at the constant questioning about Tim's performance. He has to know that Tim is capable of much more than being a 3rd string QB & did not want the focus of media questions & fan attention to be on his 3rd QB. (Why not I do not know. If it was to take the pressure off of his other 2 quarterbacks or he wants the attention to be on himself.) If either of these is the case I think this line of reasoning will backfire.
This may sound a little outlandish but I think when he said Tim was not good enough to be #3 RIGHT NOW" what he really means is we do not have room for Tim at #1 or 2 "Right Now" but go get some reps & we can revisit this in the future. How many coaches tell their 3rd. QB's to go get reps. & use the term "RIGHT NOW" 3rd qb's are usually afterthoughts.
There is no doubt Chip could have handled this much more diplomatticly & not alienated the many Tebow fans who had grown to really like him when he signed Tim when no one else would & I hope this is what he really meant otherwise the whole thing is really dark, ugly & nasty.
If he does put Morris on the final 53 that is still no guarantee that if the other QB's falter he would not bring in another QB. Hopefully that QB would be Tim & not someone else, only then will we know what Chip really thinks.
Tim as usual has taken the high road in all of this. He said again today that he thanks coach Kelly & the Eagles for the opportunity & what happened does not define him. I took that to mean he knows he can play in the league. Whether he tries again or not we will see. He shows no indication of feeling he was wronged so I assume he feels whatever he was told in private is consistent with what was said publicly.
I want to expand on this in further comments.
Chip never actually said anything about the CFL in public. That came from a "source in the NFL", and was never substantiated by anyone else. But it's hard not to infer Chip's comments that day as corroborating it, when he was so pointed in saying that Tim needed to play "in the game." Other than the NFL, the only game available to Tim is the CFL.
DeleteI think we're barking up the wrong tree by speculating this was some kind of personal pique by Chip. You don't get to his level of success by being that insecure. Plus, there has been no indication at any point in the process that he had anything other than great respect for Tim as a person and an athlete. Plus, he has stated categorically that Tim proved he is a quarterback.
Bob, what did Tim say today? Did he give any indication whether he was done?
Will make a separate post on NFL rules and how they play into the next few days.
So the Eagle's actions from now until Monday are going to be interesting. There are two NFL rules at play.
Delete1. Waivers: anyone released by the team must clear waivers before being signed to the practice squad. That means that any other team can pick them up.
2. Salary: players on the roster as of the first game is guaranteed their base salary for the season, even if they are later released. Players added to the roster after the first game can be paid week by week, and moved back and forth from the practice squad to the active roster as needed.
What makes this so interesting is that the Eagles and Falcons play on Monday night. That gives them a unique advantage in that they get an extra day to watch what other teams do, since all the other teams must lock in their roster tomorrow.
I find it highly unlikely that the Eagles want to commit to Steven Morris on the active roster for a full season based on 4 days of practice. More likely they will want to put him on the practice squad and use that roster spot on depth at another position. However, they cannot put him on the practice squad this week without risking another team claiming him on waivers. So, they wait until the last minute, release him on Monday, and then resign him on Tuesday to the practice squad. That way they can activate him week-to-week and not pay his full salary. They can also use his roster spot to claim a player off waivers that another team releases at the last minute tomorrow.
Why do we care? Well, it gives more insight into what Chip thought of Tim and whether he might consider him in the future. Tim's biggest disadvantage right now is that he is ineligible for the practice squad. Any team wanting to develop him has to spend a roster spot on him, unlike players like Morris who can be kept on practice squad until needed.
If the Eagles actually do spend a roster spot on Morris, that is not a vote of confidence in Tim's future prospects with the Eagles under any circumstances. However, if they are just being clever to park Morris on the practice squad at the last minute, then perhaps the decision to release Tim did have to do with his ineligibility for practice squad, and they might be more inclined to bring him back later in the season if they felt the need.
Grasping at straws? Yup. Not taking things at face value? Yup. However, being the last 2 teams to lock in their roster does provide a competitive advantage, and Chip is not one to let a competitive advantage go to waste. An exception to the rule may be warranted here. Let's watch for roster moves tomorrow and Monday, just in case.
"I think we're barking up the wrong tree by speculating this was some kind of personal pique by Chip."
DeleteI agree, which is why it just leaves the 2nd option for me-'End media speculation and questions about bringing him back'.
Ed: The comments I attributed to Tim I read this morning. I didn't read or hear anything from him concerning his playing future. Although if he had said he was done we probably would have heard about it.
DeleteTim has put out several tweets in the last few days. The most recent being this morning a pslam proclaiming how thankful he is.
DeleteI think he is showing us he is undaunted & unbowed by having been released & not starting the season on a roster. No doubt this courage of conviction is very insipiring.
Speaking of football the Jaguars started off where they left off last season, a loss. If this continues I wonder how long it will be before the fans start calling for him in Jacksonville again.
Cleveland, Houston, & Washington also looked less than up to par. At some point these teams are going to need help. It would be good to see fans all across the country demanding a team signs Tebow.
How they can keep denying Tim a chance to play is a travesty. Making him compete for 3rd string or being at a disadvantage because he is not practice squad eligible is beneath him. He has a winning record in the league & a playoff win. He has more playoff wins than the Eagles coach & their starter combined.
He should be starting on a team & should not have to settle for anything less.
Tim will NEVER play in Jacksonville, not as long as the current regime is there. Plus, the risk of alienating the town is too high. Can you imagine the backlash if the Jaguars did to Tim what Chip just did?
DeleteI just can't bring myself to go through another exercise of pointing out all the teams that would be better with Tim. No coach or GM is going to risk their reputation to bring Tim in after the verdict from Chip. No way. Chip really did a number on him.
Season-ending injury to Bradford AND Sanchez. That's what it will take.
By the way, if you want to see some brutal football dysfunction, look no further than my hometown team, the Bucs. Worst record in football, get the #1 pick, spend it on the consensus #1 QB prospect ... and then get slaughtered in their first game, against the #2 pick. Ouch.
DeleteNot to pile on negativity, but Bob, this is Tebow's reality. Was for the last 4 years and it still will be.
ReplyDeleteChris Mortensen @mortreport 7m7 minutes ago
Christian Ponder has been contacted by Raiders as Derek Carr was set to have MRI on hand.
And Tim is also available, we might think he is head above shoulders better than Ponder. We are not the ones making decisions. THIS is Tim's reality. And that's why he should have went anywhere where he can play football.
No team is going to even look at Tim. He got a 6 month tryout with the coach whose system is most optimized for Tim. At the end, Chip picked "whoever we can get" over Tim. And flat out said he wasn't good enough. It's brutal.
DeleteI held out a sliver of hope that the cut might have been some kind of roster gaming. At the very least, that they picked Morris because he was practice squad eligible and Tim was not, so they didn't have to spend a roster spot. But there are no NFL transactions today, which means they ARE spending a roster spot on Morris.
If both Bradford and Sanchez were injured in the next few weeks, I think they would bring Tim in, just because he knows the offense. But once Morris learns it, I doubt they'd even do that.
Kathryn uses the phrase "my lying eyes". That's what I can't get over. We all SAW that game, dammit.
I understood when the Pats cut him. I do not understand why Chip cut him and I'm not sure I ever will.
I may not fully understand the first-game-roster rule. Looking at NFL transactions today, there were a ton of players signed to the roster on Saturday, inactive on Sunday, and cut today. If my understanding were correct, those teams just guaranteed their salary for the year, just for the privilege of not dressing them on Sunday. That makes no sense.
DeleteSo I may also be misinterpreting the Eagles' actions WRT Stephen Morris. He is inactive tonight, so perhaps they have not committed to anything yet.
I think #4 is that as the preseason progressed, the Eagles made a strategic decision to commit to Bradford long-term. It's very possible that during ensuing talks, Bradford's camp communicated uneasy feelings about Tebow being on the roster after seeing the first preseason game where Tebow received a standing ovation. It would be understandable for a QB's advisers to be resistant to signing a long-term contract with a team that has a more popular QB on the roster behind him.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like Chip's hand was forced. His post-game comments and cutdown press conference were all over the map when viewing them in the context of how he handled Tebow's status in training camp and OTA's. With personnel control within the organization, however, that pressure would have had to have come from outside the building (and not in a 'tin foil hat' way - meaning it would have needed to be a source that could directly influence something of interest to the Eagles).
So here I am, sitting in my truck following the Eagles game on my phone using nfl mobile, and so totally rooting for the Falcons to win. Am I the only one?
ReplyDeleteI'm not following the game, but I'm also rooting against the Eagles. And, of course, the Broncos. I'm a terrible person.
DeleteLOL, Brooke and Ed. I am drinking my coffee right now, enjoying all the funny tweets about Eagles. I hope Romo puts 50 on them next week.
DeleteWell was that GREAT or what!!!!!! The look on Chip's face was priceless.
ReplyDeleteThat team is not the juggernaut as advertised. That game should not have been as close as it was. I think Tim would have looked much better than what the Eagles showed tonight.
I have said it in previous comments things could go south real fast for this team & thay may not be able to recover. GO COWBOYS!!!!!
Didn't watch on TV so I missed Chip's face. But thanks for the mental image; I'll enjoy imagining it.
DeleteThat's the thing about Bradford. Looks awesome in practice with the quick darts, but when the heat is on he checks down instead of going deep. Dink and dunk may produce nice stats but it won't win championships in the NFL.
Bradford's style of play also lends itself to interceptions. DBs aren't worried about him taking the top off with deep shots, so they have more freedom to jump the short routes.
You know I wanted to make a comment on something you said earlier about not understanding why Chip cut Tim. I don't understand either but I think it showed that he is not as unconventional as we might have liked to believe. There is alot of evidence to suggest that he is taking a bigger risk with Bradford & Sanchez as he would be with Tim. As you say dink & dunk won't win championships. If you & I can see it then I am sure Chip has to see it as well. But again its the safe conventional move.
DeleteTim could have done so much for the running game tonight. Chip really made a big mistake cutting him I hope he rethinks his decision & soon.
Now they have to face Dallas at home & will be under alot of pressure. If they lose this one look out the Philly fans will begin to get restless & the chants for Tebow may begin.
Ed / Bob. Completely agree with both of your points about dinc and dunc vs deep throws over the top. Additionally, all I could think of last night watching the game was that the Falcons DE's were not at all concerned about the QB running. This element is has been missing from Kelly's offense ever since coming to the NFL. At Oregon, Marcus was always a threat to run and could throw deep. With Sanchez, Bradford and before them, Foles is missing 1/3 of his offensive threat.
ReplyDeleteBob. you are correct, their running game could have been rolling in the 1st QTR with Tebow at QB and Murray in the backfield. Sad we can't see this in Philly's scheme.
Watching the Bronco/Steeler playoff game from 2011 on espn2 nfl greatest games. Its bittersweet. Incredible memories on that day that will live in nfl lore forever vs an overwhelming sense of disgust at what has happened since.
ReplyDeleteCompare this to the Eagles game last night & no one can say Tim is not good enough.
Awfully quiet on this front. Seems far too familiar. :(
ReplyDeleteIt's like the old joke about the job of the vice president being to inquire daily on the health of the President. All we can really do at this point is watch football every Sunday and count the number of quarterback ACL tears.
DeleteNo matter the outcome in the last 7min, let's all remember...
ReplyDeleteChip Kelly: Tim Tebow not 'good enough' to be our third-stringer
He was never this bad like Bradford in a game. EVER!
Chip pushed his Chips to the center of the table with Bradford & the roll of the dice came up snake eyes. He chose a quarterback with a long injury history & a losing record. Is it any wonder they are 0-2.
DeleteRight now this team is unorganized, demoralized, uninspired & leaderless. A Tebow led team would never be stuffed like they were today. There is only one way out of this predicament. 1-800-TEBOW
Who is not good enough now, Chip?
ReplyDeleteCan't really see the Cowboys picking up Tim. Still, can't put anything past Jerry Jones.
The Bears may also be a possibility. Last year Mrs. Mcaskey was very upset with the lack of spirit on the team. Who better to provide that spark than Tim. Fox & Gase know what he can do & would probably have the owners backing if they want to do this.
DeleteAt least that is what I want to believe. Surely someone out wants to try winning for a change!
Bob, I completely agree. If there was another team other than the Eagles (who happen to be well suited to Tebow's game), it would be the Bears. Tebow is a better QB today than when Adam Gase worked with him in 2011/12. I could actually see this working if it were to transpire. But, like everything Tebow in the NFL, it's a million to one shot ... sadly.
DeleteRon Dog: Da Coach Mike Ditka really likes Tim & you never know I am sure he must have some influence within the Bears organization. Maybe he can persuade the right person to give Tim a chance.
DeleteExactly Ed.
ReplyDeleteIt was interesting to hear Aikman & Buck throw Tim's name around in the 4th quarter:
https://twitter.com/RonDogCO/status/645761370097496064
AIKMAN. You don't have options after Brandon Weadon. They only kept two quarterbacks on the roster. You know that they're going to be looking at the wire and seeing who's available when they go into next week. I'm sure they've got a few people in mind in case this happened.
BUCK. Tebow's out there.
AIKMAN. Well, the Eagles may want to sign him.
Here's the real answer to Chip's Eagles problems in 2015: his boy Bradford's Career Win/Loss record. See my tweet with graphic attached:
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/RonDogCO/status/645804807203090436
CAREER RECORD: 18 WINS / 32 LOSSES / 1 TIE
BTW. I actually thought Bradford was going to thrive in Chip's offense this year. But, I underestimated two factors:
Delete1. The Eagles O-Line is sub-par.
2. Bradford is playing like a dear in the headlights.
With a sub-par O-Line and an immobile QB, you have a recipe for disaster. While Bradford still goes through the motion of a read-option to Murray on every play, the opposing defense knows with near certainty that Bradford is not a threat to run. As such, there isn't much separation by the Eagles receivers and not over the top opportunities.
Brutal to watch that game yesterday.
Ron
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNothing about Tim's NFL career has made any sense so I am going to try to make sense out of the non-sensible.
DeleteMaybe the best thing that could have happened to Tim was not making the final roster. That way he can not be scapegoated for this horrible start. If he lands on a team now he comes in to potentially improve a situation & not be blamed for one.
Like all of us I am tired of all the BS. It's high time they just let this guy play.
A guy on twitter tweeted a few hours ago that he spotted Tebow in the lobby of a Century City hotel.
ReplyDelete"Just spotted @timtebow in Century City hotel lobby. Not in Dallas yet..."
https://twitter.com/zhtroll/status/645829791879303168
The reason why this is relevant is that Tim was spotted in CC many times while he was in L.A. working w/House!
I will leave one comment here. It still baffles me after 5 years really tuned in into NFL. How in the hell do these coaches think that looking great in practice is enough to form a conclusion and that mental toughness is just something that comes and goes after few nice completed passes in the game!? You need bad MFers as your starters, fearless leaders, boneheaded assholes inside. How you take a weak ass minded QB after TWO ACL tears to the same knee and expect him to eat the field in front of him, is beyond me. I almost feel bad for Sanchize now too. He never played this bad for CK.
ReplyDeleteArgh. Not surprising; but, still makes zero football sense.
ReplyDeletehttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/21/eagles-make-quarterback-change-and-it-doesnt-involve-tim-tebow/
Eagles make quarterback change, and it doesn’t involve Tim Tebow
Eagles coach Chip Kelly said last night he’d evaluate everything, and he’s started at the quarterback position.
According to Reuben Frank of CSNPhilly.com, the Eagles have swapped out third quarterbacks, releasing Stephen Morris and signing Thad Lewis.
Lewis was part of final cuts by the Browns this preseason, and has also done time with the Rams, Texans and Bills, meaning he’s moved among some of the most dysfunctional quarterback depth charts in the league in recent years.
He’s played in seven NFL games and has a career 81.4 rating, with more touchdowns (five) than interceptions (four), and has played some generally acceptable football along the way.
This is just incredibly insulting to Tim.
DeleteI hope Chip flounders this year.
I don't look at this as being incredibly insulting to Tim. I am beginning to laugh at the lenghts these people are going to to avoid him. They are making fools of themselves & a mockery of the game itself.
DeleteI am curious if Tebow is hot on the trail of another NFL QB spot. If he is still working out with House in LA, there is a reason for that: Long term thinking with another league in 2016 or another opportunity with another squad. It isn't like there isn't a list of NFL teams in need of a QB here in WK2/3 this season:
Delete- New Orleans: Drew hurt his shoulder yesterday and may miss time. Luke McCown is their QB2
- Chicago: Cutler with a hamstring issue. As Bob points out, Gase & Fox know what Tim can do.
- Dallas: Romo out for 8+ weeks with Weeden as his backup QB.
- Eagles: Sam 'Dear in the headlights' Bradford looks scared behind that line, I would too with two ACL reconstructions under my belt.
- Browns with Johny Football under center now, durability certainly an issue, not to mention the tendinitis in his throwing arm. A backup needed to be sure. The other McCown isn't the answer for the Browns.
There are certainly reasons all of these franchises above wouldn't make sense as a home for Tebow (scheme, personalities, etc.); but, opportunities none the less.
But, it'll be a million to one shot for Tebow to land on an NFL squad this season. Would love to see it though.
ron
Tim must be counting on QB injuries to create roster spaces. After a few QB's go down, they'll run through any healthy veterans on the free agent market and get into Ryan Lindley territory. If that happens early enough in the season, maybe his film from the last preseason game tempts someone to try him out. He was in a camp this season and got reps, so his odds are better than last year.
DeleteI doubt a short term injury like Cutler, Brees, or Romo would do it. He needs a season-ending injury to a starter with a weak backup, and preferably a meddling owner.
Gotta wonder what Chip would do if Bradford and Sanchez both stink it up in the first half of the season.
Great question Ed: "Gotta wonder what Chip would do if Bradford and Sanchez both stink it up in the first half of the season."
DeleteI honestly don't know. With Chip bringing in Thad Lewis as a QB3, it's obvious he and his coaching staff don't want external pressure from fans and press to play Tebow. I can only assume that's the case. I get the sense that if Tebow plays for the Eagles, he starts for the Eagles with the team and front office "all in". This is honestly the way I'd want it; but, it's just so hard to find a situation like this. Really only as you suggest: "a QB1 major injury, weak QB2 and a meddling owner." Classic.
This is a must see video of an Eagle fan leaving the stadium yesterday. The controlled anger & frustration in his voice is very powerful. The video gives a good representation of the mood in Philly right now.
DeleteIT MAY HAVE BEEN A BLESSING FOR TIM THAT HE DID NOT MAKE THIS TEAM.
Next week Philly plays the Jets in NY & it could be another long afternoon for them if this defense plays as well as they did tonight. We may be hearing the term interim coach in the not too distant future.
Link: phi.247sports/.com/bolt/watch-Eagles-fan-goes-off-on-Chip-Kelly-leaving-the-linc-39620139
Jets defense is legit this year. Bradford stunk against mediocre defenses from Atlanta and Dallas. Could be brutal going against Revis and Cromartie, especially with constant media chant about throwing deep. And he's going to get hit, too.
ReplyDeleteAt 2-0 the coaches can still say Keep Calm. At 3-0 it will become Fix It Now. At 4-0 they will make changes or become part of the changes.
After Tim was cut it occurred to me that it would make sense on both sides for Tim to give the FXFL a shot. They are, after all, a de facto feeder league for the NFL and have everything in place for long-term success except that crucial X-Factor that drives public interest. Inviting Tim to join struck me as a perfect solution for both, providing the FXFL with an instant and massive injection of public interest, while giving Tim the reps he needs in an NFL format without any contractual restrictions against jumping ship in the same season. The only obstacle appeared to be an eligibility requirement that prohibited the participation of players who were more than three seasons removed from college. The restriction was apparently put in place to prevent crowding FXFL rosters with NFL players attempting to revive their careers.
ReplyDeleteBut now they have waived that restriction and signed Josh Freeman to the Brooklyn Bolts in a move that should prove mutually beneficial. I have to say I admire Freeman for taking this step. It's a tenacious and smart thing to do, and a heck of a lot better than waiting around for the phone to ring.
I hadn't paid much attention to the FXFL. Didn't know it existed. For sure, anything is better than doing GMA puff pieces.
DeleteMan, an FXFL team in Orlando with Tebow as QB, oh my gosh what might have been.
Last year was their inaugural season so it's not well known at all. It met with modest success in terms of their model, and even though they aren't officially affiliated they do have the attention of the NFL. Quite a few of their players have been given opportunities with teams. They're a legit operation and they've got everything they need organization-wise to establish a solid foothold as that long-elusive minor league for the NFL -- except for anything remotely approaching the NFL's popularity. Along with that comes the $$ to keep expanding. In that regard signing Tim would be the equivalent of getting a blank check in the mail. I hope Tim considers it, but he's very hard to read right now.
DeleteI want so badly to believe his situation has changed from last year because he was in camp this year. I want to believe that his film will get attention and some team will give him a shot as injuries shrink the pool.
DeleteBut the awful truth is sinking in: he's done, no matter what he does. Nobody will touch him with a ten foot pole after Chip ditched him like that. FXFL, AFL, CFL, it will all just look pathetic in the eyes of the league.
Schadenfreude is all there is left. I'm looking forward to watching Chip get humiliated by the Jets this Sunday, with Bradford furiously checking down and Revis/Cromartie grabbing 2 or 3 picks. I do want them to win one game so they can be 1-4 like the Broncos were in 2011. Then we can see Chip's face while the crowd chants "Tebow!" as the Giants beat them at home. His face will be my screensaver for a while.
Bitter ain't a good look, but it's what I am.
He may well be done. But I don't understand why other teams would put much stock into what Chip said about him though. Right now his opinions don't seem to hold much value.
DeleteIf he keeps placing his teams fortunes & his coaching reputation on Bradford it will be him who is "not good enough".
The ultimate schadenfreude for me would be for TT to join the CFL and kill it. I mean a Doug Flutie like career that proves the a-holes wrong. And that makes him happy enough to stop giving a sh*t about the NFL, and that postpones the broadcast career for 7-10 years.
DeleteBut like I said he's hard to figure right now. I think the return to SECN was an emotional decision, so there's a chance he's not done yet. I just hope standing on the sidelines again all season sparks the desire to give it a shot. Again.
Kathryn. Great point wrt the FXFL. I just listened to a Trent Dilfer interview on ESPN Radio (Russillo & Kanell) about this very thing (giving QB3/QB4's reps): http://espn.go.com/espnradio/playPopup?id=13718332
ReplyDelete3:21 ... Trent's take on Sam Bradford 3 minutes 21 seconds into the podcast
5:25 ... Discussion of NFL QB development ideas / QB School / etc.
Man, he boiled Sam Bradford down to the bare essence:
Delete"He was a guy who never had success when it got cluttered, when it got chaotic, with tight pockets, with messy stuff. He was a guy who needed to play clean."
And of course Tim is the polar opposite, a player who thrives on chaos. So frustrating that NFL coaches cannot comprehend that solid play in a clean practice environment may not translate to play in games.
Did Trent ever say anything about Tim's final game, or about him being cut?
"Man, he boiled Sam Bradford down to the bare essence ..." He sure did.
DeleteI've kept an eye out for Dilfer commenting on Tebow's pre-season play and release from the Eagles. But, I suspect Dilfer is hesitant to speak out now after being skewered after he did that piece on Tebow training with House on ESPN. Turns out Dilfer was ahead of the curve in publicly discussing Tebow's reworked throwing mechanics. I would love to hear his take on Tebow's fit with the Eagles offense versus Bradford/Sanchez.
I missed this Jaws tweet back in early September: https://twitter.com/jawsespn/status/640559503352528896
ReplyDeleteRon Jaworski @jawsespn
Arena Football League would help Tim Tebow. Remember Kurt Warner? Dick Vermeil said that's where Kurt improved. By playing !
Decent Eagles' article on MMQB's site: http://fyre.it/UBAzFd.4
ReplyDeleteMore evidence that Tim was cut for non-football reasons. When the Eagles signed Thad Lewis a few days ago to be 3rd QB their reasoning was "he has won games in this league". His record is 2&4.
DeleteI still maintain Tim has was better off being released than being stuck as 3rd stringer on this dysfunctional team.
FINALLY. A talking head says what we've been saying here all year. It took Jon Gruden to point out that Chip's system is 'predicated on the threat of a QB keeping the ball. So, when they bring in Thad Lewis, maybe they are bringing in a 'mobile QB' who will not inspire the PHILLY fans to CHANT 'Lewis, Lewis, Lewis' when the Eagles offense is sputtering.
ReplyDeleteIt does appear that Kelly and his staff didn't want the external pressure to play Tebow on a daily basis. But, IMO, Tebow was the best choice the Eagles had for their Kelly offense. Their loss to be honest.
MY TWITTER POST: https://twitter.com/RonDogCO/status/646730413633728512
Mike & Mike Video: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=13722259
MIKE & MIKE (Adnan Virk) SEPTEMBER 23, 2015 @ 7:52 AM
How do you start to fix this. I mean, Chip Kelly certainly is a guy that believes in himself, has taken on ownership of personnel, but, how do you reconcile that fact they just look so bad in that second game there. How do you rebound against the Jets?
JON GRUDEN
<<...>> I think they have to take a look at the QB. You know, I think this Chip Kelly up-tempo offense, a lot of it is predicated on the threat of the QB keeping the football. And Sanchez wasn't a real mobile QB, Michael Vick was. When you hand that ball off on these sweep plays, you have to have the QB become a threat to keep it on the backside. Otherwise, nobody honors Sam Bradford. Nobody honors him at all. When Chip Kelly coached at Oregon, you had to defend 10 Gaps. You had to defend sideline to sideline because you never knew if that ball was being handed or kept by the QB. Right now there is no threat of Bradford doing anything running the ball and I think that's a big culture shock to this offense.
The only thing to suggest Thad Lewis might be mobile is his skin color. He had - 178 career rushing yards in college. That's negative yards. In the ACC. Seriously.
DeleteThe more I think about this situation, the more insane it makes me.
My brother in law said "there MUST be something we don't know." He's right. I only hope that after Chip & Co implode, someone spills the beans on the inside story. Just so we know.
I didn't know Lewis had so few rushing yards at Duke. Nice find. But, I think that may be as much a statement about the Duke offensive scheme. The Draft Profile on his says he can extend plays; but, as we all know, that's a whole lot different than being a legitimate threat to run:
Deletehttp://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/thaddeus-lewis?id=497121
DeMarco Murray just left practice with a hamstring injury. There goes the last shred of the run game. You can't make this stuff up.
DeleteHe also has a whopping 55 yards in the NFL on 25 carries for 2.2 YPC. By comparison, Sanchez also has a 2.2 YPC and Bradford has a 1.9 YPC. Tom Brady has 2.3 career YPC, and I'm pretty sure I can outrun TFB.
DeleteWhat do you all think about my take that Tim was better off being released from this team. I believe the implosion we are witnessing would still be happening if he were on the team.
DeleteBy not being on the team he is in the clear.
Would it had been in Tim's best interest to have made the team or not?????
In hindsight Bob, yes, Tim would absolutely be the scapegoat for the heinous performance we've seen from the Eagles so far. It would have been the Jets all over again, so in that regard he's better off. That said, the argument could also be made that the team actually wouldn't be in this position had he been available to make a few plays. It's all about momentum, and there were several instances over the course of the last two games in which he could have guaranteed a few first downs, and even a touchdown (that Bradford instead threw for a pick). He might have made the difference. But woulda, coulda, shoulda, we just don't know and won't know because he was cut.
DeleteEd. I agree with you and your Brother-in-law; there must be something that transpired in the NovaCare offices that changed the trajectory of Tebow as an Eagle. Especially after the Preseason Game 4 performance and the steep line of improvement he showed. Hope it does surface down the road.
DeleteWas it?:
- Eagles HC and/or ASST Coaches didn't want to deal with the Philly crowd chanting TEBOW, TEBOW during games at NovaCare.
- Did Chip feel Bradford and Sanchez were mobile enough to extend the pocket and make plays downfield?
- Did Chip truly believe that Bradford would put his two ACL reconstructions behind him and not 'hear footsteps' causing him to ALWAYS hit the check down and not throw it deep for a big play?
- Did Bradford & Sanchez’s contracts get in the way of playing Tebow this year. Do they plan to cut Sanchez & Bradford loose next year and move to KELLY'S EAGLES OFFENSE 3.0?
- Does Chip legitimately want Tebow to get reps in another league with the intent to bring him back down the road when some of the challenges listed above are squared away?
- Did an edict from on-high (Owner: Lurie) come down saying we need to cut Tebow loose?
- Has Chip lost his nerve and ultimately was not able to pull the trigger on going completely ‘rouge’ & 'unconventional' with Tebow in the Eagles' zone-read option?
- Does Chip have his eyes on the Titan’s head coaching job, even though it is currently filled?
- Did Pat Shurmur (Eagles OC) convince Chip to cut Tim loose because of his long-standing relationship with Bradford, knowing Bradford (and of course Sanchez) would crumble under the pressure of a popular TEBOW in the wings?
- If Kelly was considering utilizing Tebow strategically in '3rd and short', 'goal line' and '2-point conversions' during the season, did the fact that Sanchez (QB2) would need to be inactive on game-day for the roster numbers to work, get in the way? Was he concerned Bradford wouldn't accept missing out on scoring opportunities in the Red Zone with Tebow capitalizing instead?
- Did Chip really bring in Tebow as a favor to Urban giving Tebow national exposure to kick-start his career and always viewed Tim as a camp arm?
- Has Chip lost his mind?
So many reasons come to mind. But, ultimately, if Chip was as independent and unaffected as he says he is, why didn’t keep and utilize Tebow?
I agree.
DeleteEither way he comes out looking like a winner in all of this.
By trying to ignore or minimize him hoping this will go away they are actually fueling it.
Bob. I also agree that Tebow may be better off not being directly associated with this building implosion. I also agree with Kathryn that Tim could have kept momentum going in certain instances this year; but, Kelly and Shurmur would have had to utilized Tebow in the exact moments to avoid this collapse.
DeleteBUT ... in spite of making plays, I just know that the talking heads and the Eagles' QB1 / QB2's would have blamed their ineffectiveness on having to swap Tebow in and out of the game, disrupting their momentum and continuity. Remember that load of bull we heard in NY with the Jets' Sanchez?
If the Eagles were smart, they'd bring Tebow in as their QB1 to kick-start the run-game, keep the opposing linebackers and safeties honest and open up passing windows and the deep ball.
As it is today, the field of play is NOT wide open for play-makers to run free, it's as bunched and tight as can be with Bradford behind center (NOT A THREAT TO RUN OR THROW DEEP).
This discussion reminds me of an experience I had while in Boston for grad school in 1997. A group of us found an indigent man unconsicious in the subway station late one night. Someone went and got the station attendant, who radioed 911. While we were waiting for an ambulance, the man stopped breathing and I announced my intention to begin CPR. The station attendant asked me if I was a "trained medical personnel." I replied, "well he's dead right now, so I don't think I can make him worse."
DeleteThat's my answer on Tim. His career is dead now. Playing anywhere in the NFL would not make it worse. He would be far better off on the Eagles than doing ESPN, regardless of how bad the team is doing.
What happened to the dead guy? You can't just leave the story hanging like that.
DeleteLast year when things looked bleak & we had no reason for hope Chip came out of nowhere & signed Tim to a one year deal (although parading a playoff winning QB around as perspective 3rd stringer was beneath him & he deserved much more we accepted it in good faith). We know how that turned out.
DeleteWhat it did give Tim though was an opportunity to leave us (& coaches as well) with a lasting impression of what he could do on the field.
His career may very well be dead now. But I think if he has any chance at all of reviving it, it was better to leave that lasting impression than to be caught in another firestorm of controversy on a team that seems intent on imploding.
I lip-locked him for a few minutes til a fire truck showed up and jump started him. They got him breathing again, but he was in a coma at the hospital that night and I doubt he recovered. I waited too long to start CPR because I didn't recognize what was happening. Afterwards I noticed he had a cardiac bracelet. If you ever have a loved one lose consciousness, monitor their pulse carefully.
DeleteYour story reminds me of a health drama that I witnessed. I too was in grad school at the time and it also occurred in a subway - the Washington, DC Metro. It was late at night, around 10:30, and I was on my way home to my basement apartment in Laurel, MD from night class at GWU. I had to transfer to the green line at the L'Enfant Plaza station and *always* missed the connection by just a minute or two, so had to wait twenty minutes for the next northbound train to come. That particular station is dead that time of night, so there were only four or five other people on the platform. Since it is an intersection station, the green/yellow line tracks cross above the orange/blue line tracks, and there is a short, waist-high wall surrounding the upper platform with a bench placed along the wall ever twenty or so yards. So that night some guy came along and for some reason stepped up on one of the benches and sat on the wall instead. After a few minutes a loud crack echoed through the station. The guy had fallen backward off the wall and landed a dozen feet or so at the bottom of what I can only describe as a concrete ditch running the length of the station floor. Someone ran to get help while the rest of us ran to the wall. We had to tell him to stop moving because he was just laying down there moaning and lolling back and forth senselessly, all the while a pool of bright red, super oxygenated blood was spreading behind his head. By the time emergency services arrived the pool was the size of a hubcap. The paramedics were still working on him when the train showed up, so I left and never learned what became of him. I can stomach a lot of gore but that was really disturbing. Maybe not so much the blood, but the idea that with one decision in a split second everything can change. The guy may have died, or lost his sight...all because he decided to sit on the wall instead of on the bench.
DeleteI've seen my share of bad stuff, and it's always sobering to consider how fine a line we walk between health and catastrophe. I had some crazy hobbies like rock climbing and aerobatic flying when I was younger, but the thing that scares me the most looking back were things involving alcohol and general youthful stupidity. Terrifying to realize how quickly a life can end or be ruined in an instant, especially where cars are involved.
DeleteOn the other hand, strange how little we can react to things that shold be horrifying. As a young army officer I happened upon a murder-suicide scene a few minutes after it happened. Things were still chaotic and I was unsure what had happened; fleeing soldiers had reported a "sniper", and there were literally men crawling behind the curbing on the street for cover. I came across the perpetrator in a grassy area shortly after he suck-started his M16 rifle. His entire intact brain was laying on the grass next to him. I looked at the brain, looked at him, and said out loud, "dude, you are going to need that."
The guy he murdered, 1LT Gary Parker, was a friend and a fine officer. He was killed for doing his duty. He was a promising young black officer and would have excelled in the service. Sad to think about, even a quarter century later.
Thought you'd like to hear this insightful commentary by Carter and Westbrook on Mike & Mike yesterday. Perhaps Kelly and his coaching staff didn't see this coming from Bradford (checkdowns and lack of courage in the pocket). I think Sanchez would be better than Bradford in the shotgun; but, either way, both QB's are sitting ducks with their porous offensive line.
ReplyDeleteQuite honestly, the safer position for an Eagles QB to be in is running a read-option and 'freezing' the DE's and DL.
MY TWEET: https://twitter.com/RonDogCO/status/646746263459864576
AUDIO: http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=13715742 (at the 7 minute mark)
Brian Westbrook says Sam Bradford choosing ‘check-downs’ over deep passes to get the ball out of his hands and avoiding hits.
MIKE & MIKE (Chris Carter) SEPTEMBER 22, 2015
"My biggest concern is Sam Bradford has not completed a pass over 20 yards. <<…>> This offense is not going to be successful if you can’t stretch the ball deep."
BRIAN WESTBROOK
<<...>> "Chris, you know. What do you have to have to get the ball downfield? First of all, you need the protection up front. They don’t have that, that’s their #1 problem. Second of all, you have to have a QB who’s willing to hold the ball for that 7-step drop, those 3 or 4 seconds in the pocket to deliver the ball downfield. What we’ve seen so far from Sam Bradford is, he wants to take the check-down. He wants to get that ball out of his hands quickly so he can avoid the hit. And, so that doesn’t allow guys like Agholor and Jordan Matthews to get downfield and get those explosive plays that you’re talking about Chris. So now you have a team that needs those explosive plays to make a defense respect the downfield, to hold that safety from coming downhill right after the snap. They’re not getting that because they can’t block it, but, #2, the QB is not willing to step back in the pocket, quite possibly take a hit or even take the chance of delivering the ball downfield because he wants to get ball out of his hands so quickly."
Kathryn. I saw that about Murray also. If he is truly nursing a hamstring and can't play Sunday, I actually think the Eagles may be better off in the short term with Sproles in the backfield. With their O-Line playing as poorly as they are, having a back that can go east and west and not just 'downhill' like Murray may be a better option.
ReplyDeleteIf their QB was also a threat to run, then Murray could be effective. But, with the O-Line not performing and the Defense keyed in on Run Plays sending their Safeties and LineBackers on blitz after blitz, Murray doesn't have a chance.
*** Part of me also thought that the Eagles and Murray are just using the 'sore hamstring' excuse to keep Murray out of having to talk to reporters today while he is still hot and embarrassed about his '5.5 AVG RUSHING YARDS PER GAME' as an Eagle. That's a total of 11 rushing yards going into Game 3.
Update on Tim being in L.A. There haven't been any sightings of Tim at USC or UCLA, but someone in the media did tweet about Tim being in CC again:
ReplyDeleteHolly Long @HollyanneLiz 1m1 minute ago
Ahem @TimTebow Im in the Hyatt lobby it looked like you were trying to find me
In her earlier tweet, she mentioned that Tim was headed to the spa. The Hyatt in CC is long believed to have been where Tim usually stayed while he was working w/House.
Interesting article detailing Bradford's inability to throw deep ... What was Chip thinking?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2015/9/23/9375461/philadelphia-eagles-sam-bradford-deep-pass-film-review
Good article at profootballtalk.com. It was supposed to be the Eagles but the Steelers are taking the lead on two point conversions. It's a copycat league so it could start a trend. Extra points are no longer automatic. It makes sense to go for 2 in alot of cases. 5 out of 10 2pt. conversions is better than 9 of ten extra points.
DeleteJust two words: KIRK. COUSINS.
ReplyDeleteSaw the game stats from yesterday. I'll say this much. It was always perception with Tim, and how he LOOKS doing things, not the end result.
Again: KIRK. COUSINS.
Looking good doing it. Getting coaches fired. Keeping his job.
KIRK. COUSINS.
Heh. Good ole Weinberg.
ReplyDeletehttp://m.pressofatlanticcity.com/sports/local/eagles/weinberg-time-for-sanchez-to-start-at-qb-for-eagles/article_23e5e4a0-6197-11e5-9b27-33884a53d511.html?mode=jqm
Good stuff, especially calling Chip on the BS with Morris and Lewis. Sure am looking forward to the Jets destroying the Eagles on Sunday. How weird have things gotten that we're pulling for the Jets of all teams?
DeleteI don't see Chip benching SB during this game, but if he stinks it up again, there will be a lot of pressure to make a change for game 4.
He wrote what I think is ESP waiting to write for some days now. And I take ESP for one of the more level headed and realistic beat writers out there. He never took Tebow and made him a starter, rightfully so, and he never proclaimed Bradford the next big thing in CK's offense. He coming full circle to saying from the beginning that Sanchez is the better option at QB. And that Tebow should not be cut. Amen.
DeleteI don't root for the Jets under any circumstances. This is one case in which "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" doesn't apply; and at any rate never underestimate the Jets' capacity for disappointing you - whatever it is you're hoping from them. If the Eagles lose, too bad for them. But even if they beat the Jets it's not like some sort of feather in their caps. It's the Jets for Christs sake.
DeleteWell, I may not be rooting for the Jets to win, but I am definitely rooting for the Eagles to lose. Since the latter is a necessary precondition for the former, I'm ok with it. Besides, the main architect of Tim's debacle there has moved his buffoon show a few hundred miles north.
DeleteESP's timing is probably better than Weinberg's. Benching the QB after 2 or 3 games is premature. However, if SB shows the same poor performance tomorrow, then game 4 will become a do-or-die scenario. If Sam can't get traction against the Skins, then Chip may have to choose between him and his own job.
Gotta wonder how much of this situation falls on Pat Shurmur. SB was Shurmur's guy in SL, and Lewis was one of Shurmur's guys in Cleveland. No doubt he had a hand in the decision to ditch Tim too. If the Eagles season goes down the drain early, gotta wonder how long it takes Chip to throw Pat under the bus.
Right now I have an uncomfortable preoccupation with Derrelle Revis's groin.
Well I'll leave you to your preoccupation with Derrelle Revis' groin. In the meantime I agree re Shurmur. I've suspected since comments he made during preseason that Shurmur was more of an obstacle than we'd hoped he would be. In that regard Chip's comment "He's not good enough" could be qualified as "not good enough to overcome Shurmur's reservations".
DeleteI am also rooting if not for the Jets to win than definetely for the Eagles to lose & hopefully lose in a decisive way! The buffoon show moving north definetely allows me the latitude to enjoy a Jets revival. After all how can any football fan not enjoy what Broadway Joe did for the NFL. I especially liked the mink coats he used to wear & all the girls he used to date. :)
DeleteThe Eagles are down for the count & I don't want anything to allow them back up off the canvas. Although I do agree, I don't underestimate the Jets capacity for dissapointing me. How can the Eagles continue on knowing with SB they cannot use any read option plays?? One or two more losses & the fans will be screaming for Tebow.
I agree with what you all said regarding Shurmur. He probably got into Chips ear & Chip went along. Hopefully he will reverse course on this if only for the sake of opening up the playbook.
Did anyone see the article today on Philly.com by the associated press "Tebow returns to TV while he awaits next NFL opportunity". Tebow is still very much engaged in what is going on in the NFL & has watched both Eagles games as well as many others. I think it's safe to assume he wants another opportunity to play. What I wouldn't give to know what his real thoughts are on those first 2 ugly losses.
The AP article actually thought Tim had won the 3rd QB Job. That's not an insignificant assertion. If the AP was siding with Tebow it possibly signals a slight shift in the Tebow narrative.
The local beat guys watched Tim's progression from the first day of OTA's to the last drive of the preseason, and they were pretty much unanimous in thinking Tim had won the job.
DeleteThe whole thing still confounds me.
"Gotta wonder how much of this situation falls on Pat Shurmur. SB was Shurmur's guy in SL, and Lewis was one of Shurmur's guys in Cleveland. No doubt he had a hand in the decision to ditch Tim too."
DeleteEd. I honestly think this is a huge part of why we and so many are shaking out heads in disbelief here in Week 3. For whatever reason, I also believe Shurmur has inordinately influenced some of the Eagles' decision making this season. I know this goes against conventional wisdom regarding Chip Kelly's hands-on approach to every level of decision making. I suspect Kelly may have been prompted by Lurie, or out of necessity, to increase his level of delegation. A lot of coaches need to do this; many do it successfully.
Ron Dog:
DeleteWhatever did happen, in the end only one guy is going to be held accountable & it's not Shurmur. Chip made all those questionable offseason moves he can not afford to hide behind Shurmur.
I think these tweets from @PColaG8r are the most plausible explanation:
ReplyDelete"Should've known Tebow would get cut. Knew all along if he made team, he'd be starting by mid-season because Bradford/Sanchez would crumble."
"Chip couldn't leave Tebow on team as 3rd stringer. Bradford and Sanchez couldn't handle that, and fan pressure would mount to play Timmy."
So same old BS.
Leave it to the Jets to disappoint.
ReplyDeleteI swear, Jets could screw up a ______.
DeleteBradford played poorly again, but this win takes the heat off the coaches to do something right away. Eagles play the Skins next week, so they'll have a pretty good chance to win regardless of whether Bradford sucks.
They have an impressive D. Just imagine TT behind that...
DeleteBradford played really poorly, he's not getting better. He's just not clicking in this offense.
Tim isn't getting an invite back no matter how things shake out so it really doesn't matter. I suppose I can appreciate the fleeting satisfaction of revenge-by-proxy but at the end of the day schadenfreude doesn't put Tim on a football field. No amount of bad luck or piss poor play will open the door to any team because nothing has changed. It's the same shit, different year. We've seen this movie before and we know how it ends.
DeleteIf he ever wants to play football again he knows what he's gotta do. Whether he's willing to do it is the question. Frankly I doubt it.
In the meantime you can satisfy your thirst for justice in that neverending fountain of schadenfreude: the Jaguars.
DeleteThe difference between the Eagles and the Jags is that I could actually spell out a plausible scenario for Tim coming back. If Bradford got benched after 4 straight losses, and MS reverted to his turnover machine self, by the 8th game, or if both of them got hurt, Chip just might have been desperate and crazy enough to try it. Tim would have an advantage over any other FA in that he went thru camp and therefore knows the offense. Don't laugh, that's how Ryan Lindley wound up starting a playoff game.
DeleteIs that likely? Of course not. But more likely than his odds with any other team in the league, which are currently at zero point zero percent.
Looks like Big Ben went down today, possibly for the season if the horrible pics are to be believed. I don't see Tim going to the Steelers, but they will have to grab someone because Vick is guaranteed to get hurt at some point. Poor guy's brains have to be made of oatmeal at this point.
The chance that a desperate Chip will somehow see the light is also 0.0%.
DeleteNot gonna happen.
I do not agree. If Chip were to lose both his starting QBs suddenly, bringing Tim back would be the most likely outcome. And I say that not as a Tebow fan but as a basic observer of the football universe, with zero wishful thinking.
DeleteThere must have been a reason Chip signed Tim back in the spring. What could that reason have been?? Did he or did he not know what to expect when he signed him??
DeleteWas Sanchez right when he was criticized for saying Tim was just a camp arm??
Todays ugly win only prolonged the inevitable. Bradford is obviously not the answer at Quarterback. The only thing he did not do was throw a crucial interception to cost them the game. A win is a win but there is no way the coaches could be happy about how today's game went. They are not playing the game the way the coaches envision it. Zero points in the 2nd half countless 3 & outs when they should have been putting the game away. The only thing uglier was the play of the Jets offense. Now with the Skins coming up they may actually get back to .500. Is there any justice????
I am not as pessemistic to think Tim will never get an invite back. If this was the case he would have never have gotten an invite in the spring to begin with & I would still like to know why he did. Although I know I never will.
On another note: Other than the usual anti-Tebow reasons for not signing him. Why would the Steelers not at least consider him?
1) He & Vick both like to run.
2) Both are left handed throwers.
3) Tim & Antonio Brown worked out together in the offseason. Antonio may be a good ally for Tim.
Other than the usual aversion to all things Tebow. Why wouldn't they do it??
Mainly system. Steelers run Erhart-Perkins. Here are the teams that run EP: Patriots, Broncos, Giants, Steelers, Panthers, and Chargers. Common trend = accomplished passer. Not a system for a game manager or a dual threat QB. Also primarily built on play action under center, which is style least suited to Tim's game. Little pistol or spread, and no read option in the playbook for Big Ben.
DeleteBut good point on the match with Vick, especially the left handedness.
Am hearing now that Ben is out "at least 4 weeks", which would not create an opportunity anyways. Will see more after the MRI tomorrow, but sounds like the physical exam was not as bad as the photos made it look.
Ok: That's a fair point although it would be good to see them adapt their playbook to accomodate a proven winner like Tebow as opposed to hiring one of the known commodoties who have never produced anything.
DeleteThat aside not on the list that run Erhart-Perkins are: Bears,Skins,Cowboys,Dolphins,& Niners plus several more.. Some of these teams should be embarrased by the QB play they are putting out there. Would they rather lose than give Tim a chance to play??? That's mind boggling to me. What's the point of competing.
Someone has to have the stones to recognize this dynamic & make the necessary corrections.
Looks like Big Ben is only out 4 to 6 weeks, so probably an academic discussion anyways. Like everything at this point.
DeleteWe were all a little disappointed yesterday & if you are like me a reason for hope might be in order.
DeleteWell I don't know if it means much but check out this video of Shawne Merriman. He thinks Tim will be back in the league this year based on how good he looked in the preseason.
tmz.com/2015/09/28/shawne-merriman-tim-tebow-nfl
What I liked about this interview other than the positive content was his attitude. He did not seem like a BS kind of a guy. It's not much but I will take it.
Good find. At this point any tidbit helps.
DeleteMight as well throw another one on the pile. We'll have a pile of tidbits.
Deletehttp://thebiglead.com/2015/09/29/why-the-heck-does-john-fox-prefer-jimmy-clausen-to-tim-tebow/
Interesting point about Johnny Unitas who BTW has something in common with Tim Tebow. Johnny was released by the Steelers before he became a big star with the Colts.
DeleteWould it not be great to see history repeat itself.
The narrative about having to make all kinds of concessions for Tebow is growing old & stale. He proved he could throw accurately in preseason & he has already proved he can win.
Let the tidbits keep piling up. Someone will take notice eventually & give him a REAL opportunity!
I kinda wish this was Tim taking snaps there and this being written about him:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/sports/football/humble-outpost-for-a-former-first-round-pick.html
It's not. Josh Freeman is giving it everything he got. Kudos to him.
I agree. Though this article also illustrates the risks of such a move. When the offense fails to move, the blame falls on the QB. Even when the supporting cast is a bunch of scrubs, the headline would still read "Tim Tebow can't even play in reject league."
DeleteBut as you stated earlier its better than not playing at all. If injuries keep piling up and coaches are making desperation calls toward the end of the season it's almost a guarantee that Freeman will get a call before Tim.
DeleteDear Lord, it's so painful to watch Fitzy play. To hell with his 50 Wonderlic and all that, he's such an uneventful football player. He's like a toaster without the final toast popping up to your delight.
ReplyDeleteJets have a decent receiving corp, though.
And what a dumpster fire the Dolphins are. They look like they hate each other and hate their QB the most.
Eagles though!?
ReplyDeleteROFL!
Here's your looks great in red jersey in practice and ride your team to the ground with him at helm QB.
Don't ever change, Chip, we don't know shit about Football.
Skins up 13-0 at the half. :)
ReplyDeleteSkins are not a good team. If Chip loses this one, he is going to be under pressure to make concrete moves and hold someone accountable. Bradford could be at risk of being benched next week.
I'm giddy with anticipation of Eagles being 1-4 after next week. How many tweets do you think we would see reminding Chip that Tebow took a 1-4 team to the playoffs?
Yeah, so I had a grin from ear to ear when Wash scored that last TD.
DeleteGo Giants!
Looks like Chip has painted himself into a corner with Bradford. He was brilliant for a few drives, just enough for himself and his coaches and the media to spread the blame elsewhere. But at the end of the day he's not the right fit for the offense (honestly and truly Sanchez is a better option at this point); and besides that it takes more than showcasing your brilliance in perfect circumstances to hustle a win in a game that rarely sees perfect circumstances. Rather it takes the kind of guts and gumption that we just saw from Cousins and Garcon. It takes being able to rescue a broken play from a steaming dung pile and turning *that* into something brilliant, or even serviceable, again and again and again for sixty minutes. Aside from those few flashes of brilliance, all we've seen again and again and again from Bradford is a bunch of check downs.
DeleteI agree with most of your take Kathryn. I would add Bradford also missed alot of wide open recievers & has little to no feel for the pass rush. That last drive where they only needed a field goal with all their timeouts left. Case in point.
DeleteThat sure was enjoyable :)
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DeleteGotta wonder what kinds of changes may be in store for the Jaguars. They are not showing any improvement in the Caldwell era.
DeleteThe book on Bradford is pretty well written in stone by now. As Dilfer said, he plays great in a clean pocket but could never handle when the pocket breaks down. And that was before he blew his knee out twice.
DeleteChip's fatal error was failing to invest in an O-line to keep his pocket clean. He tried to economize, and now injuries and lack of depth have left Sam playing behind scrubs.
I agree with your take Ed.
DeleteIn listening to Chip's comments this morning I am not sure he sees it this way. He seems to think its a matter of execution & not talent.
I don't like the chatter that we are hearing from the coaches or the players, fingers are beginning to get pointed. DeMarco was complaining he wasn't getting the ball enough, Bradford said expectations from preseason are gone etc.. There seems to be a lack of leadership & focus. IMO the ship has sprung some leaks that need to be adressed quickly & I am not sure their approach is the right one.
Just goes to show everyone is thinking it...
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/usatodaysports/status/650816318560579585