Ok, training camp is almost here. I'll be traveling for next few days, so I wanted to get the practice schedule up. Below are the first 3 weeks of preseason. All practices are open to the media. After the second game, they go to their normal season practice schedule and media access is limited.
• Saturday, Aug. 1: Report day
• Sunday, Aug. 2: 11:30 a.m.
• Monday, Aug. 3: 11:30 a.m.
• Tuesday, Aug. 4: Noon
• Wednesday, Aug. 5: Day off
• Thursday, Aug. 6: 11:30 a.m.
• Friday, Aug. 7: 11:30 a.m.
• Saturday, Aug. 8: 11:30 a.m.
• Sunday, Aug. 9: Noon
• Monday, Aug. 10: Day off
• Tuesday, Aug. 11: 11:30 a.m.
• Wednesday, Aug. 12: 11:30 a.m.
• Thursday, Aug. 13: 11:30 a.m.
• Friday, Aug. 14: 11:30 a.m.
• Saturday, Aug. 15: Walk-through, TBA
• Sunday, Aug. 16: Preseason game vs. Colts, 1 p.m.
• Monday, Aug. 17: Day off
• Tuesday, Aug. 18: 11:30 a.m.
• Wednesday, Aug. 19: Joint practice with Ravens, noon.
• Thursday, Aug. 20: Joint practice with Ravens, noon.
• Friday, Aug. 21: Joint practice with Ravens, noon.
• Saturday, Aug. 22: Preseason game vs. Ravens, 7 p.m.
FIRST!!! :)
ReplyDeleteWell, it's time. :)
ReplyDeleteIt's probably futile to say this, but let's try not to get too caught up in the day to day accounts of who had how many completions and interceptions in 7v7 and 11v11. Tim will not be perfect for the first week or two. He will still be learning the offense and his decision speed will be slower at times.
I think we want to look for two things:
1. Continued progress in his comfort level with the offense.
2. Evidence of plays and packages tailored to his strengths.
He won't be kept or cut based on his completion percentage in training camp. The decision will be based on his production (runs and points) in the four preseason games. So let's try to view the first 2 weeks as a process that leads to the first game, and not as an end unto itself.
Sort of an uneventful practice today. Very little reporting on TT and Barkley. Neither here nor there on either IMO (and you all know better than to get worked up over Lombardo).
ReplyDeleteBradford had a shitty day. Sanchez had some shitty plays. If anything the defense had a good day.
No one reported that TT held the ball too long. TT and MB shared 3rd string rotation. Cling on that if you have to.
Barkley also spent time with House this offseason, so I would need to know more about Chip's visit with House to determine whether it's a good sign for TT or not.
Here. TT was hitting targets all practice. https://twitter.com/markeckel08/status/627904598188105728
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/patgallencbs3/status/627913475617071104
ReplyDeleteAnd another observation: no designed running plays today as far as I can tell. IMO this is a good thing at this stage. More practice w base offense means they want him to be able to run it and not just packages. Packages can come later. Strictly running base offense acquitted himself reasonably well against MB today. (Don't kill me I'm only using these stats to help illustrate broader point.) TT had 75% completion today to MB's 84%. If he had thrown one more pass-and it had been complete-his comp % would have been 83% to MB's 84% - very comparable. (Also demonstrates what a small sample we're extrapolating - silly I know). ESP makes the point that MB is way more fluid with the offense and TT still has his struggles. Makes sense given MB has far more experience with the offense. But at the end of the day - ugly or not - TT is in his rear view mirror closing distance quickly. And that's without running plays.
Bad grade from ESP, but incongruous with reported stats of 9/12. That highlights a consistent trend in TT reportage, focusing on one or two errant balls rather than full day or multi-day trend.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2015/08/sam_bradford_tim_tebow_mark_sanchez_report_card_fr.html
I don't have much of a problem with ESP's analysis. I think his grading system gimmick however is unnecessary and off-scale. As you pointed out inconsistent with the content of his report. I think he gave TT a D+ so that he wouldn't have the same grade as Sam Bradford. Silly. If he insists on plotting these guys on a scale he should at least dump the school grades and use the 1-to-10 so he has more room to make relative comparisons without suggesting the new guy who managed a 75% comp rating with no interceptions is on the verge of failing lol.
DeleteESP article a good example of why not to get caught up in play by play during camp. Tim goes 9/12 and ESP gives him a D for missing one throw. Completely ignores larger pattern of steadily improving decision speed and consistently hitting short and intermediate bread and butter routes.
ReplyDeleteGood point on lacknowledge of packages. Better for him to show comfort with base offense.
2 weeks and 11 packages until first game. Then it starts to count.
I enjoy play-by-play so long as I can assemble a pastiche of multiple analyses/observations to form my own conclusions. Dunno what ESP is up to but based on all I've read TT had a good start to camp today. I'm encouraged, and doing my best not to get excited.
DeleteI enjoy it too, I just keep reminding myself not to put too much stock in it. Unless it's good news. Then it means everything!
DeleteI have read all the stuff I could find on line. As far as Bradford goes, went with 1's, badly overthrew his receivers, had the worst start to TC today and still got a C. From what I've read, Tim had a 75% completion day, and on top of that made one great throw that was batted high in the air by a great CB play for a certain big play and still got a D.
ReplyDeleteI have NO ILLUSIONS whatsoever that Tim is in the battle for a starting job, and I don't expect ANY REPORTER to say that Tebow looked better than Bradford, but don't color me impressed from today onward about any of the reports I read online. It will be purely for my amusement from now on and the only thing that I'll believe are going to be the set of these two babies that can read the words that I'm typing right now.
But let's be honest. Tebow had a better start to TC than Bradford. Take THAT to the bank. And hopefully build on it as well.
You all have summarized today's events quite accurately.
ReplyDeleteFor years all we have heard from the detractors is how low Tebow's completion % is. 9/12 is an improvement by any measure.
All I can say is good coaches coach & writers write..
Exactly. Those of us who have followed Tim for a long time know his weakness has been the short, quick throws that most NFL QB's pad their stats with.
DeleteChip Kelly's offense has a reputation as QB friendly. Sanchez and FIles both saw significant improvement in their completion percentages under it. Would be great to see similar results from Tim.
Here is a nice tidbit from the Eagles official site:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/Practice-Report-A-Run-Game-Staple-In-15/773548bb-bbee-4804-9711-f634c67ce1a0
"1. Who had the best throw on Sunday? Tim Tebow made a case with a deep ball down the left sideline that was on the money."
And another reporter that likes what he saw.
Deletehttp://m.pressofatlanticcity.com/sports/local/eagles/eagles-camp-notebook-tim-tebow-sharp-on-day/article_150db83a-9a23-5a0f-9b4e-109e0fb2bcd9.html?mode=jqm
I'd add that Geoff Mosher in another article gleaned some significance that TT is getting 3rd string reps w MB now rather than being entirely relegated to 4th string.
And a last thought on the apparent lack of designed running/package plays today. That they had TT focus on base offense suggests to me that they need to be confident that he can sub in for Bradford if Bradford should go down mid-game. A hypothetical that further suggests that they're looking to potentially activate and use him - and not Sanchez - on game days. In this scenario we'd see him active on most game days regardless of who is starting and Sanchez on deck in case of long-term SB injury. Quite a bit of conjecture at such an early stage but hey not totally out of the realm of possibility. Are we about to witness the emergence of the QRB position here? Aargh I've got to rein it in, getting way ahead of situation. Can't help it!
Not a bad idea. I thought that same thing. I just don't know what kind of affect this would have on the quarterback dynamic or team chemistry.
DeleteAt least 3 of those Qb's envision themselves as starters. How will they coexist in backup roles???
Only MS would be the backup. TT can and should be content with full-time situational QB part-time backup this season. Think Frosh year at Florida.
DeleteESP basically just posed the same thesis.
Deletehttps://twitter.com/EliotShorrParks/status/628218597932953600?lang=en
Greatest leak ever.
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/rotolegends/status/628209311232057344
The job is as close to officially TT's to lose as it's gonna get. Now all he needs to do is seal the deal with some plays in the PS games.
Good stuff! Here's a direct link to the article.
DeleteSo freakin' stoked right now. TT is having a killer day today!!
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/PressACWeinberg/status/628249637955194880?lang=en
https://twitter.com/MrJamesParks/status/628249695526129664?lang=en
https://twitter.com/MattLombardo975/status/628248718349832192?lang=en
https://twitter.com/JimmyKempski/status/628248598409543680?lang=en
https://twitter.com/Mfranknfl/status/628248517811671040?lang=en
https://twitter.com/MattLombardo975/status/628248500342493184?lang=en
https://twitter.com/BrandonGowton/status/628248368410677248?lang=en
https://twitter.com/BrandonGowton/status/628247223042768896?lang=en
https://twitter.com/Mfranknfl/status/628246204854370304?lang=en
But THIS right here has me really intrigued...
https://twitter.com/RachelCSN/status/628245939782840320?lang=en
Awesome stuff. The last tweet is great. He's getting virtual reps on reading the D and making decisions.
DeleteIt's pretty much unfolding like we all expected, right!? :)
DeleteIf only there was a chance to watch some of the throws now after all tat we read...
Love it. Never thought I'd read two back to back positive tweets from Matt Lombardo. Amazing really! ron
DeleteNot bad today for a guy who has never been considered "a good practice player".
ReplyDeleteI don't know if the Eagles are thinking this way & It's early but If Tim continues to improve & perform well throughout the preseason it might not be a bad idea keeping him as a full time situational quarterback as well as primary backup. They could keep Barkley as 3rd string or just carry 2 quarterbacks.
This would avoid a potential conflict with Sanchez should he be asked to be deactivated on game days like some are theorizing. He has been a starter most of his career & its reasonable to assume this would not be easy for him to accept. He could be a starter somewhere else while at the same time the Eagles save his salary towrards their cap.
A: "If Sanchez can't accept being deactivated tough shit." --Chip Kelly, probably.
DeleteB: "I'll let you have Matt Barkley for a new pair of crew socks and a cat food coupon." --Chip Kelly, also probably.
A+B = Mark Sanchez can suck it the hell up. The last thing I want to see is another coach giving a flying crap about his wounded ego and the impact of his delicate mental state on his buttfumble stat. Fortunately neither does Chip.
Thats precisely the point. Having him as a deactivated 3rd stringer doesn't help the team in any way IMO.
DeleteWhat would be the point in keeping him under those conditions?!
Better off getting something in return & taking that salary off the books.
The point in keeping him is that knowing what they know now they believe he would be a better long-term replacement for Sam Bradford than Tim would be. Could be for any number of reasons: more consistent passer, more familiar with offense, more experience throwing to starting O, more experience reading defenses,** Tim being out of the game for so long, etc. It's all hypothetical so they have to take a conservative approach that allows them to get the most out of Tim while minimizing exposure to the unknowns that he still brings to the table. So in a scenario in which Sam goes down in the middle of a game TT would finish the game for him and then Mark comes in as Sam's replacement the following week. Naturally they would adjust their strategy given any number of variables but those variables (Tim playing well, Tim not playing well, Mark not playing well, etc.) haven't occurred yet. Getting rid of Mark just because he's unhappy with the situation isn't realistic. They need him as insurance until circumstances prove otherwise.
Delete**and take note at how they're *physically* teaching Tim how to read defenses by standing behind Sam and Mark and mimicking their plays - that's *exactly* what he needs as a dyslexic, kinesthetic learner. The Broncos should've had him doing that from Day 1.
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/sports/local/eagles/tim-tebow-impressive-wide-receivers-struggle-on-second-day-of/article_5b6db712-3a15-11e5-9282-db24f4ed5b9c.html
ReplyDelete>>Tebow had the best day of all the Eagles’ quarterbacks Monday.
The hesitation in his decision-making that had been there during the offseason was gone. At one point near the end of the 90-minute practice, he completed six straight passes and took off upfield for nice gains on a pair of read option runs. His only incompletion came on his final play, when he overthrew tight end Eric Tomlinson on a deep pass down the sideline.<<
Wow today was evidently a relative train wreck compared to yesterday. Could be due to adapting to practice at the Linc and first practice in pads - after a long hiatus for both Bradford and Tebow. The good news: everybody sucked! (LOL, what a thing to say...) In fact ESP graded Tebow just below Sam Bradford and both Sanchez and Barkley below Tebow (then again, he could be inflating Tebow's grade out of fear that he'll get lynched again by a mob of religious nut jobs - who the heck knows?). Unfortunately TT delivered a passing stat-line of 5/11 that makes us all slap our foreheads with unpleasant flashbacks to the infamous 1-7 preseason game in Foxborough. The good news again? So did Barkley! 5/11 with a brutal F grade from ESP, who reports that he has been regressing more every day.
ReplyDeleteLet's hope this one was an outlier for all the QB's.
Fandemonium: TT was apparently greeted by a mob of adoring fans today who screamed to the point that reporters couldn't ignore them. Hey we're all glad he's back, but he's not on the final roster yet so let's hope the disciples don't scare Chip Kelly away.
I was going to post something yesterday cautioning everyone not to get too caught up in one good day. Delayed hitting "publish" and Tim beat me to it.
DeleteThis is a good reminder that it is a process, and there will be ups and downs.
On an encouraging note, it sounds like Tim continued to throw the ball well today, and didn't revert back to indecisiveness under pressure. His issues came when he tried to run or improvise. We know he can do both in games, so we can cut him a little slack during his first full pads practice in almost 2 full years.
Chip said in the pre-game presser that Tim is throwing well. IMO that confirms that the work with Tom House paid off, and Tim is learning the offense enough for the indecisiveness to go away. If he continues to sharpen himself over the next 9 practices, we have every reason to believe he will acquit himself well starting on 15 Aug. And that read option run was just a tantalizing tase of what could be in store for Tim in Chip's offense.
Well the good days are racking up. I won't post links to all of the tweets, but suffice it to say the reporters are universally positive right now.
DeleteI think we're watching TT's confidence slowly come back. I don't mean the faith he has in himself to work hard and theoretically succeed. I mean the confidence that comes with performance and results on the field and knowing that he belongs there. I daresay the confidence he had when driving toward the end zone in the Swamp.
I was out in the mall to get my pants tailored for tomorrow's job interview and I was speeding home to get to the coverage and I can't really believe what I'm reading. This is not the practice Tebow we've read about, nothing near that guy. Now I can't wait for the preseason games. They can't come soon enough.
DeleteThanks for the updates folks. I haven't had a chance to read anything about today's practice yet & will do so shortly. Judging from what you all are saying this is starting to become a trend.
DeleteBy his own admission Tim's outlook towards football has been transformed by what he has gone through. He takes it less for granted & his appreciation for the game has grown. Which can make him an even better player IMO.
One thing that I was able to see & got my attention were Chip's comments when he said "Tim has other skills other quarterbacks don't have" & he specifically mentioned his ability to run.
For me this was very telling. Alot of quarterbacks have had the ability to run but I don't think there has ever been a quarterback that can run with the combination of power, speed & agility like he can. While also being able to throw on the move.
I will go read up on today's events & if anything stands out I will comment some more.
Definitely a good couple of days. I'm trying to keep focused on the process and ignore the highs and lows. However, awfully hard not to get excited by what we are hearing. Clearly the trend line is up, and we are reading things we never imagined we would read.
DeleteVery eager to see how he does in a PS game. I suspect he'll do even better. Tim has always improved under pressure.
Well! Earlier I said I would comment if something got my attention well this not only got my attention it darn nearly made me faint.
DeleteI read that Merril Hoge actually praised Tim as a legitimate quarterback, if this in fact true there has definetely been a seismic shift in perceptions concerning Tebow.
What could be next another blue moon!? ;)
"Tebow's return is like a flower growing out of a sidewalk."
ReplyDeleteLove this column.
http://touch.sun-sentinel.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-84143047/
Hate newspapers that make you register to read a single article.
DeleteI expect we are going to be seeing more of this shovel pass in the red zone. It's ingenious and very hard to stop:
ReplyDelete"During a red-zone drill, Tim Tebow started to roll to his right, where several defenders seemed to be waiting for him. Just as it seemed like he was going to lower his shoulder into them, he flicked a shovel pass to Pratt standing in the back of the end zone. No other quarterback on the Eagles can make that play."
http://www.delawareonline.com/story/sports/nfl/eagles/2015/08/07/nelson-agholor-impresses-ability-work-ethic/31316703/
Just got caught up. Missed following developments today due to work. Still encouraged as all get out. Performance today better than stats suggest. 2 dropped balls from good passes gives him an adjusted 6/9 (and I'm adjusting it b/c I dont believe the coaches are standing there logging stats like the reporters are - they're taking the whole picture into consideration and know those drops came off of good passes). Not an 'electric' passing day but think about it: his weak passing days are starting to trend toward 6/9? What parallel dimension have we slipped into? Add to that the mobility factor as evidenced by the play you've referenced and there's a lot to be encouraged about.
DeleteI was thinking about this, and not that I think about this most days, but I think that his lower passing attempt days are maybe by design. Maybe his position coach goes into a meeting with him that day and says "I want you to go first read, maybe second read, RUN/SCRAMBLE". We know that he is the only one on the team that can do this and it gives a defense another/different look out there. IMHO, another reason to keep Tim on the roster. Yeah.
DeleteAnd this is from today:
ReplyDelete"Bradford, Sanchez and Barkley each toss TDs in team red zone drills. Sanchez twice. Tebow didn't get a rep."
I think that I don't know what to think anymore. I think I'm gonna plug out, out of all this. The suspense is killing me. Luckily, I'm going to the seaside tomorrow and I'll try to ease up on the coverage. Good luck to everybody. Hope I hear some good news in two weeks time and Barkley gets traded to Rex Ryan.
Before I go to my vacation last post. I went through the comp % from ESP thus far in the TC and here they are where they stand so far:
ReplyDeleteSam Bradford: 155 reps (14 with second team), 96/122, 8 TD, 1 INT - 78,7%
Mark Sanchez: 132 reps (nine with first team), 73/109, 6 TD, 1 INT - 66,9%
Tim Tebow: 70 reps, 38/56, 2 TD, 1 INT, 1 rushing TD - 67,9%
Matt Barkley: 77 reps, 46/61, 3 TD, 2 INT - 75,4%
As you can see, Tim is not nearly "inaccurate" as we get to read about it. Draw your on conclusions, I don't think there's a group agenda against Tim, that's truther BS in my book, but the narrative doesn't wash off as easily as you or me would like to.
Take care and stay positive!
I'm liking Mark Eckel's coverage. He just gives a quick summary of how the player did and why without necessarily building his impression around stats. He gives TT an overall good day today.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2015/08/sam_bradford_tim_tebow_and_other_observations_from_5.html
Tim had a decent day today: 10/14, 1 TD, 0 INT
ReplyDeleteI'm starting to wonder if Tim isn't getting some new plays to work on which might explain some of the passing bumpiness that he's had in the couple of practices prior to this one? He started out camp with 9/12 and similar passing stats and they degraded to about 5/10 and similar passing stats for a couple of practices there. Today he rebounded to 10/14. I noted that while some reporters were simply explaining a couple of today's whiffed passes as 'holding the ball too long' (or just bad passes) one reporter today characterized them as the result of apparent miscommunication with his receivers, which implies something else altogether. It would suggest unfamiliarity or lack of prior practice on those plays / with those receivers rather than the vague cover-all explanation of 'inaccurate'. I'd really like to know if the reporters recognize these plays from earlier in camp or if they are new, but it might be difficult from a distance to distinguish and keep notes on it.
It's never bad news to read that TT got some second team reps today. I'd also point out that in ESP's aggregate stats a disparity is growing in how many reps TT and MB are getting:
TT: Overall Stats: 105 reps, 54/81, 3 TD, 1 INT, 2 rushing TD
MB: Overall Stats: 77 reps, 46/61, 5 TD, 3 INT
Could be a good sign but don't read too much into it either way. (Hey, it could mean the coaches feel TT needs more work!)
A last note on reporters: It's been obvious that some are slightly biased for TT and some are slightly biased against him, but all in all they've been pretty fair. Even the one's biased 'against' him are pretty good about giving him his due when he makes good plays. I wish the people that jump down these guys' throats whenever any of them miss a good play or interpret it differently or are less than glowingly complimentary would just calm down. These guys aren't as vicious as some portray them to be, and in the end it doesn't matter anyway. TT is ultimately writing the story, not them. Let's hope the coming chapters are good ones.
Here's an encouraging take:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadelphia-eagles/tim-tebow-making-progress-eagles-still-has-ways-go
LOL...
ReplyDelete>>• Nelson Agholor had his worst moment of camp today. He got himself wide open on a deep route, Timmy Tebow placed the ball on a platter for him, aaaaand... drop. Ugh.<<
This reminds me of that beautiful TD pass that went right through DT's hands in the infamous Bears game back in '11 (IIRC). TT probably quietly groaned with a flashback.
Article: http://www.phillyvoice.com/eagles-practice-notes-sam-bradford-has-gun-no-legs/
From the Colts Fans' www.fansided.com website, a couple of ignorant cheap-shots (see below). I'd love for Tebow to have a great preseason game tomorrow against the Colts.
ReplyDeletehttp://horseshoeheroes.com/2015/08/15/colts-at-eagles-preseason-what-to-watch-for/
THE Quarterback. Get ready for a healthy dose of Tim Tebow on Sunday. The over-covered QB is currently third on the Eagle’s depth chart, but with Sam Bradford out he’s sure to get a lot of snaps. Tebow hasn’t played since 2012 and has a career completion percentage of 48 percent. That doesn’t mean he turns the ball over a lot though as it is hard to throw interceptions when you are one-hopping passes to receiver. Expect the defense to look good when he’s on the field.
GAMEDAY!!!
ReplyDeleteI really hope Tim plays decent today. A no INT day with some completions would be a good day for him.
What do you think...?
Gameday. Looking forward to it. I agree Luzwei; but, also want to see Tim move the offense with a couple of sustained drives leading to a score or two. A key value he brings is having the tools (passing/running/play-making) to move the chains when needed. I think Kelly & his asst coaches are looking for this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/videos/videos/Press-Pass-Ryan-Day/49d7d217-b2b1-4a12-87b7-9ab0bf01ebba
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/videos/videos/Press-Pass-Pat-Shurmur/d8c50bb9-2b5d-46f9-aee2-7622d8efbc58
Also hoping Tim is decisive, getting the ball out quickly when it's there and going through the progressions when needed.
Have fun watching all. Ron
Tebow looks vastly improved & more confident than he did last time when we saw him with New England. I don't believe we could have asked for a better first game back than he played today. His passes were all right on point. Most importantly NO TURNOVERS!
ReplyDeleteI am going to attribute the struggles to the poor O Line play. Also some of the recievers ran the wrong routes which caused him to hold the ball longer than he wanted but again no turnovers.
Sanchez looked very shaky IMO I wonder if he is feeling the pressure of having Bradford & Tebow around.
Barkley looked Ok & IMO would be worth keeping as a 3rd string QB if Sanchez or Bradford were to be traded.
I was very pleased by Tim's performance today & believe if he had been able to play with the first or second string he would have looked even better. His ceiling continues to be higher than the rest of the Quarterbacks.
Thats my quick take on today!
It was kind of a mixed bag for me. I was pleased with the way he threw. He was quick and decisive in his first series, and he had an excellent touch throw in the 2nd series. However, he showed some of the old Tim in the middle two series, holding onto the ball way too long.
DeleteI was surprised that the read option was not more effective. It didn't seem very coordinated, but we can probably chalk some of that up to new teammates and rust. They finally got the option working in that last TD series, and Tim showed what he can do in the red zone.
I was expecting a lot of "same old Tebow" stories from the media, with an emphasis on his 50% completion rate, which is depressingly similar to his career 47% rate. However, the comments from Chip seemed to defuse that story line, and certainly boosted my spirits.
He's got to fix that negative yardage scrambling garbage. There's just no excuse for turning a 5 yard sack into a 15 yard sack by turning away from the line of scrimmage. I remember seeing him do that with Denver and watching John Fox shake his head in disgust, and I feel the same way now. It's the worst aspect of his game and his coaches have to break him of it.
On the other hand, he did take care of the ball, and we know that is a big deal with Chip.
So overall I feel better after reading the coverage and CK's comments than I did right after the game. However, blaming the line and receivers only works for so long when you are also playing against 3rd string defenders. He's going to have to show steady improvement over the next 3 games if he wants to stay on the team.
When the coach is blaming the line and receivers you've got a little more grace period methinks than if just avid TT fans are blaming the line and receivers. TT has work to do but what we're hearing from CK is really encouraging, particularly with regards to how his passing held up under live play and making the point that TT was playing with a different set of personnel than MB and MS. I don't know how much time if any they are going to give TT in next week's game, but if they want to get an accurate read on how well he can run the option at NFL pace then they have to give him a better line - and particularly a center that doesn't force him to take his eye off his reads with every snap. Not saying that will guarantee magic but trying to execute the option with practice squad players is just handicapping the whole exercise.
DeleteFor my part I was ready to puke with anxiety throughout the lead up to this debut, and am relieved that even with the uneven play and sacks and so on we did not suffer a repeat of the 1-7 fiasco in Foxborough. I think Chip provided us with "Timmy's" thematic keyword back during OTA's: Incremental. He's steadily making incremental progress and this performance today is no deviation from that trend. Would we have been delighted to see him bust out a few 20-yard runs and march his ragtag group of 4th stringers down the field for 3 passing touchdowns? Yeah, of course, but we also need to bear in mind that what he managed today was remarkable considering he hasn't played live ball in the League for two years, and is doing so with relatively little experience with the playbook and a new set of mechanics. I think he showed he's still got a lot of work to do, but more importantly he showed CK that he's got something to work with. And I think CK sees it.
I totally agree. Tim gave Chip the main thing he was looking for today "throwing the ball". It looked to me also like they have formed some sort of player/coach bond in the way they were interacting on the sidelines.
DeleteMy kingdom for a lip reader. It was cool they seemed to have good rapport but I bet CK was coaching him after the fact on that running TD.
DeleteBest former hater article ever:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/081615_Mark_Sanchezs_performance_in_Eagles_preseason_opener_cause_for_concern.html
http://www.delcotimes.com/sports/20150816/mccaffery-tebow-scores-points-in-his-fight-to-be-an-eagle
ReplyDeleteGreat analysis here. While everyone else is looking at the stat line and saying Barkley out threw TT the coaches will be breaking down film and seeing this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2015/08/17/eagles-wake-up-call-tebow-vs-barkley/
That is exactly the same game I thought I was watching as well. On first take this morning Skip gave Tim a grade of B & I agreed with everything he said except that he did not see improvements in Tim as a passer.
DeleteI thought Tim's first 4 or 5 passes were a strong indication of his imrovements & a strong indicator of the potential that could be had with more playing time. He noted that it's sad that a quarterback that did what Tim did in Denver should have to showcase himself this way. While I agree with this sentiment we could not have expected anything more. I hope we get to see him with 1's & 2's before the final decisions are made.
The questions I am asking myself are. How much leeway will they give Sanchez if his play does not improve & how will Bradford look.
I think Bradford will look good. He may or may not suffer from skittishness at the outset, but I believe he'll find his groove and prove himself a worthy starter. I don't know what's going on with Sanchez. He was so bad that I almost wondered if CK asked him to tank his drive to make Barkley look good by comparison, but that's a little too black-helicopter-conspiracy-theorist for me. As craptastic as he was, though, I don't expect MS to lose his backup spot...this season. And Barkley...The thing with MB appearing on the surface to ball out yesterday is that when all is said and done the guy is in his 3rd year with this offense so he should be playing efficiently by now. And he is. Efficient but not necessarily effective, or effective enough, let's say. That he's getting accolades for essentially getting his running back in position to score should tell you we've seen all we're gonna see from him as a playmaker; and the only thing he did as a passer with his superior throwing motion and more competent offensive line is throw an interception and nearly throw another interception. Chip's been to that rodeo with him already. And keep in mind he had a great preseason last year too, and it didn't really inspire Chip to call his number on game day. He's proving he'll make a serviceable backup in a conservative dink-and-dunk passing offense, but I don't think that's what Chip's looking for in his #3. Not that I have any more clue than anyone else. Let's wait and see how Chip allocates PT and personnel in the next game. It might shed some light on how he sees things shaking out.
DeleteHere's some more good stuff.
DeleteSorry, forgot the link:
Deletehttp://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2015/8/17/9164065/tebows-incompletions-and-sacks-did-he-really-hold-the-ball-too-long
Here is some video confirmation of how quickly the pocket collapsed on Tim on Sunday. The top 3 thumbnails are videos. In all 3 instances, Tim gets hit right as he finishes his drop and sets to throw. There was no "holding onto the ball" nonsense on these plays.
DeleteIn fact, the video confirms how much his throwing motion has improved. With the old loopy motion, or or two of those might have been a fumble.
The coaches will see this, and they'll see how much poise he had to avoid turnovers and dumb mistakes.
Hell has frozen over.
ReplyDeleteBill Polian: Tebow Perfect Chip Kelly QB
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=13456002 (commercial at beginning)
Yeah, but it was more of a backhanded insult than anything. Basically said Tim will never be an NFL QB but can be useful as a short yardage gadget. The more I think about it, the less I think Chip wants that. I think he is intrigued by the potential bargain of getting a first-round caliber QB at a UDFA price.
DeleteYeah: For the most part these pundits are unwilling to evolve on their positions. Its sad that they feel the players have to adjust to the way the game is played instead of vice versa. IMO this stifles innovation. Tim is a unique quarterback with his own style that most are either unwilling or unable to understand.
DeleteLets be thankful that Chip doesn't think this way. Chip has said over & over that Tim is not a gadget player & so far there has been no evidence from him to suggest otherwise.
I also belive based on what Tim has shown so far on the field & the way the Eagles have so adeptly handled Tebowmania there may be other teams taking notice.
IMO all of these factors will make the ultimate triumph all the more sweeter & those unwilling to yield or evolve will be as President Reagan used to say be left on the ash heap of history.
At first I thought tonights performance for Tim was looking a little ugly. Especially when he took that sack after what seemed like an eternity.
ReplyDeleteUpon further review my outlook on the performance was pretty good (if a person has an appreciation for his game). The holes that are created when he is the quaterback are huge. I would bet there is not another quarterback in the league whose offense spreads out the defense as much as his does. Which creates room for him & his backs & larger windows to throw the ball in.
The two completed passes he made were nice throws that were not hurried with his body totally squared up & under control. He surveyed the field several times from the pocket & some of the uglier plays will get get cleaned up with more playing time.
These are huge improvements in his game since we last saw him play.
As an aside I think tonights game may have been the first time I ever heard a player get criticized for scoring a touchdown
My first reaction was that same sort of sick feeling I got two years ago, watching him flounder with the Patriots, trying to rationalize various arguments for why he didn't suck as bad as it looked. In retrospect, there were some bright spots.
DeleteThe Good:
The read option really got moving during that one drive. Nobody points it out, but when the RB started chewing up yardage in 10 yard chunks, it is because of Tim. Because he is such a threat to run, the DEs or OLBs have to stay put and contain, rather than crashing inward and pursuing. On that one long run the RB had right after Tim's long run, watch the DE on the left. He's just standing there staring at Tim, while the RB cuts back into the gap between him and the scrum. And if the DE forgets, then Tim takes off for a 20 yard run.
All that has to be a revelation to Chip. And it's worth remembering, this offense is DESIGNED for the read option, not an improvised-on-the-fly collection of plays like they had at Denver.
The Bad:
That man has some kind of serious mental block about throwing passes. I love the guy and I was shouting "throw the damn ball!"
In the glass-is-half-full department, he did not have any wildly inerrant throws, and he did not do anything stupid with the ball. Who knows, maybe the coaches told him not to take risky shots? Maybe they wanted him to focus on running, to see what the read option could do.
I guess it all comes down to what Chip wants. If Chip wants a short yardage weapon and running change of pace, with the potential to play reasonably well in a pinch, then Tim is appealing.
But if he wants a real QB that is going to grow into a starter or backup, then Tim is not making his case well. The bottom line is that the running game is all well and good, but you're not going to be successful unless you can throw the ball. Everytime it was 3rd-and-5, I was filled with dread because I knew Tim had to throw it. That's not good, especially if the coaching staff feels the same way.
The real problem is that, while Tim might get another shot if he proves himself as a competent passer, he will never get another shot just as a running QB. Chip is the only game in town. It's Eagles or ESPN, I"m afraid.
I felt pretty good going into the preseason. Now I'm worried. He's not going to get many snaps next week, since the 3rd game is all about the starters. He should get a solid half in the 4th game. He really needs to have one solid passing game to show he's got it in him.
Helps that Barkley waffled at the end zone, I suppose.
It would be putting lipstick on a pig to say that was anything but disappointing. His passing game was dreadful, almost as bad as the 1-7 Foxboro game; and he clearly held the ball too long even when protection was noticeably sufficient. And while I can appreciate that guys like Mayock can STFU when criticizing how he scores (reversal notwithstanding), it's nonetheless painfully bewildering to watch him either outright disregard or, worse yet, fail to see a wide open receiver six yards away in the end zone. How incredible would that drive have been had he capped it off with a passing touchdown? Game changer on a macro level. Instead we all get to listen to his critics insist he's "just not an NFL QB" for another week.
DeletePass the damned ball.
The worst part is that Barkley's relatively mediocre performance opened the door for him to step up and draw a positive contrast. Instead he handed validation to his critics on a silver platter. Wasted opportunity, at a time when opportunities are dwindling.
With all that said I don't see the sense in the present allocation of his practice reps and PT. He was throwing to Kinne on the sidelines near the end of Sanchez' run as if he'd been told he was about to go in, but then they sent Barkley in ahead of him like they did last week. So once again he gets garbage time, this time after a week of watching his practice reps decline. If they don't like what they see then they should cut him loose now rather than belaboring this exercise, because cutting his practice reps and giving him three drives with the practice squad serves no one. Similarly if they plan to keep him and trade Barkley, then enough with trying to showcase Barkley at the expense of Tim's practice reps and playing time. After advertising him on the trading block for over a year it should be patently obvious by now that no one wants to sacrifice a pick for the guy.
Maybe all of this will look better after a few days, but right now we're just seeing the same ol' same ol' - from Tim, from the OC, from everybody.
Maybe it is possible to divine the coaches' intentions from the allocation of practice reps and game time. But it is equally likely to talk ourselves into the wrong conclusion. We just don't know.
DeleteDidn't watch last night, it was super late, it was almost 4 am when Tim went in and my eyes were shutting down... From what I can hear, Tim played scared.
ReplyDeleteI watched Matt, and it was clear that Barkley was on big display and that Barkley played bad. His every throw was an almost INT, being closer to a defender than his players. He did not make himself more desirable to teams, at all. That's my humble opinion.
Maybe coaches told Tim, don't make anything stupid, make only safe plays, don't throw INTs, you can't really know. But what we're seeing in preseason is not really that much different from what we saw in 2011, only with better mechanics. He doesn't get the chance to look mediocre at best for 3 QRs and great in 4th because he plays only 1 at most. I would LOVE TO see him play with the 1st team, but that's not going to happen, he's not nearing anywhere near the WRs Sanchez or Barkley are playing with.
I'm really sad. Sad that he put so much work into it and he's not really getting the chance to show it, mostly by circumstances and his self inflicted mental brakes.
If you play scared, you get cut.
Part of Tim's appeal is his uniqueness as a quarterback. All quarterbacks do not have to play the same way to be effective. Because of Tim's unique athletic skills & his ability to spread the defense completion % is not as important to him as it might be for other quarterbacks.
ReplyDeleteBottom line: When Tim enters a game he makes things happen usually for the better for his team.
Yes at times it may look ugly & I get that sinking oh no feeling as well. Yes he may have looked a little tentative on some throws. But for all the criticism he recieves we have never seen him make alot of costly turnovers or other mistakes that other quarterbacks that supposedly throw the ball better make.
Maybe he should have thrown the ball to the open reciever in the endzone but I will take a plunge into the endzone everytime over a tipped pass or turnover that we so often see.
IMO he neeeds some time to re-learn how to play football with his new mechanics. His biggest weaknesses in the past were his short to intermediate throws & he has looked far better in these areas than he did when he played for New England.
Hopefully the coaches will give him the time he needs to adjust & build his confidence back up. Playing for a few plays towards the end of preseason games is not enough of a sample size to judge him on after being out of the league for 2 years.
Sanchez & Barkley have been in the offense for 2 years & both have looked bad at times during this preseason. We know what their ceiling is.
Bradford was not sharp either. He also needs time to learn the offense & get used to playing once again.
Lets give Tim the same oportunity to work out the kinks that all the other quarterbacks get.
P.S. If for some reason things don't workout in Philly if I were the Redskins I would give him a call.
All last week we heard reports that the Eagles were going to give Tim a roster spot unless he imploded. Last nights performance while not a masterpiece was not an implosion.
DeleteAs Ed pointed out the running is all well and good, but if he could get by solely on his mobility and read option skills then there would have been no need for him to spend two years with Tom House in the first place. At the end of the day the man needs to be able to not only show that he can drive the offense down the field and score with his arm, but do it on a reasonably consistent basis. Now he's got one, maybe two brief chances at most to prove that he can do it even once. The Broncos released him after an electrifying season with otherwise remarkable production numbers because he couldn't pass to their standards. The Jets squandered him because he couldn't do so. The Pats could not justify giving more time to him because he couldn't do so. Excited or not by Tim's running, Chip cannot justify giving him a roster spot with a 1-4 passing stat line. It pains me to write that. The read option simply will not work on a long-term basis if he is not viewed as a passing threat, and how are defenses supposed to view him as such a threat if he fails to see or take advantage of a wide open receiver for a TD pass that arguably any other QB in the league would have at the very least attempted, and that 95% of which would have successfully executed? This is the calculus that Chip is facing right now, and that's solely on Tim. Chip gave him a workout when no one else would, he signed him early in the preseason to give him as much time with the playbook as possible, he's been supportive of him in press conferences, and he's repeatedly defended him as an NFL QB. Time to act like an NFL QB and - again - throw the ball.
DeleteJust learned that the earlier 3rd down passing attempt into the EZ that missed high did so because the receiver ran the wrong route again. It doesn't justify his reluctance to pass to the receiver in the EZ on the later drive but it at least provides some context that could explain the decision as a result of a thought process rather than the result of old automatic reflexes emerging under duress. At worst it's a combination of the two that at any rate ultimately led to a score.
DeleteOh Thanks Kathryn. Are you saying you agree with me? :)
DeleteI am just joking. :)
I didn't have any problem with him running it in on that one play where he "missed" the receiver, and I thought Mike Mayock (my favorite analyst) was wrong in his comments. If you watch closely, Tim pulls the ball down and decides to run while the receiver is still covered. A fraction of a second after that, the corner trips and the receiver becomes wide open. But at that point Tim's eyes are no longer downfield, they are on the goal line as he tries to decide where to punch it in. That was Tim playing the game as only he can play it.
DeleteBut otherwise, Mayock was spot on. If you take away Tim's first read, he's like a deer in the headlights. And we can't blame the O-line. Tim had several plays where he stood there for 5 or 6 seconds in a clean pocket, and did not throw the ball. That's the same crap he has done for his entire career, so it's past time to stop blaming the receivers.
Bottom line, if you can't consistently convert on 3rd and 5, you are not going to win in the NFL. Bradford has been in the Eagle's system the same amount of time as Tim, and he was very decisive. None of the other 3 QB's had any problem finding open checkdowns in the 5-10 yard range. It's just Tim.
Maybe with time in the system, he will grow more comfortable. Maybe the combination of bad accuracy and indecisiveness was too much in the past, and now that he has fixed the accuracy issue, coaches will decide his indecisiveness is fixable. But he's not doing much to make it an easy decision for the coaches, and if it wasn't for Barkley's continued mediocrity I'd say we were seeing the end of Tim's career.
I'm saying I get why after throwing for a TD to an empty spot of grass where a receiver should have been he might be reticent to try again if he believes it's safer to just run it in himself; but I would add that he needs to get over any trust issues regardless of what happened on the prior drive/play (whether his mistakes or his teammates) and throw the ball rather than forcing an unnecessary run. Running = good. Unnecessary running = bad, for numerous reasons.
DeleteAnd while we can't hang all of this ugly on the offensive line I still for the life of me cannot understand why they won't give him at least one or two drives with the two's. I just don't get it. Don't they want to at least see what he could potentially do with receivers that know where they're going? Don't they want to test his mobility against defenses that are actually going to be out there on the field during the regular season? The fact that they're not is concerning to say the least.
I agree with you all the time and respect your take. I agree with all the points you've made, except I don't believe he deserves a pass on his completion percentage (no pun intended) just because he plays a mobile game. Even a 55% rate would be enough, and that's not asking a lot.
One more negative comment, and then I'm going to take a break until the game next weekend: watching Tim, I feel like the parent of a 2nd grader. "Oh, he threw a good pass, he threw a good pass!"
DeleteThere's nothing I hate more than the feeling that I'm lying to myself, and I'm starting to get there with this.
Ed the 'blaming of the receivers' was with respect to one play where the receiver ran the wrong route. There is no dispute here that Tim's indecisiveness was the chief contributor to his struggles last night.
DeleteKathryn, I'm not taking a poke at your comment, I'm taking a poke at my own mental process for the last 3-4 years.
DeleteA little more elaboration on why I'm frustrated with Tim and myself. 2 years ago, I spent hours reviewing tape and writing a detailed play-by-play analysis on why Tim's 1-7 game with the Patriots wasn't really his fault. For every incompletion, I found a receiver or lineman to blame.
DeleteNow I'm just getting this overwhelming sense of deja vu.
Tim's career passing % is about 47%. Guess what his completion percentage through the first two preseason games is? About 47%. Maybe that's not a fluke, maybe it's who he is.
I would imagine that Tim's frustration surpasses everyone's given the sheer volume of work that he's put into improving and the apparent lack of dividends on the field. I suspect what he's hoping for is time, and the willingness from his coach to believe that it will all start to gel if he just sticks with him.
DeleteMy frustration right now is largely due to the circumstances. Most rookie quarterbacks aren't Andrew Luck (or Sam Bradford, frankly). Most need a few seasons in the same offense to start mastering pro-style pocket passing and pro defenses. Tim never got that kind of consistency; a huge disadvantage not only for a rookie but for someone that never played even a watered-down pro style in college - and yet he's expected to read defenses as if he were a true journeyman. And whenever he fails to do so some jackass with a microphone and a twitter account will post a video of him getting sacked for everyone to point and laugh at. He's now on his fifth coaching staff and sixth offense in a little over three seasons, and would probably at this point trade his firstborn son for the opportunity to stay on this team and continue improving for a couple of years.
For that to happen Chip Kelly needs to believe that Tim not only has the potential to continue improving but can also add value to the roster in the meantime. I suspect that Tim is trying to prove the latter with his running, but he can only prove the former with his passing. I hope somehow he finds a way to do it.
I think you are right about potential. In that spirit, I do find some solace in Chip's words after the first game:
Delete“I liked how Timmy threw it. That’s the big concern with everybody coming in, has he really changed? He’s sequencing better. He’s got his feet underneath him. When guys ran the right routes and he had an opportunity to throw the ball, I thought he threw it really well."
So basically, Chip is breaking down Tim's passing difficulties into two separate issues: mechanics/accuracy, and decision-making. If he has not fixed the mechanics/accuracy by now, he is not going to get any better. Decision-making, however, can improve with time in the system and help from his coaches.
The most optimistic interpretation of yesterday's passing performance would be that Tim did not exhibit any accuracy issues or breakdowns of throwing mechanics. Given that, they may well be willing to give him time to develop on the decision-making.
Tebow fans can take solace in a few things.
ReplyDelete- There is no comparison to last night's game and the game he played against TB while with NE, regardless of the optics. Last night he played 3 series in garbage time. Against TB he had much more extensive action (I believe he played the entire second half) while playing with more experienced personnel.
- Regardless of how Tebow looked in the pocket, he led the team to 10 points in three series. He led the NE team into the locker room against TB.
- With NE Tebow was in competition for QB2 with Mallett. There was always a chance that NE could keep three QB's, but the team had rarely done so in the previous 10 years and the team at the time had a number of injuries to key players.
- Mallett played well in the preseason, and specifically in that TB game. Mallett demonstrated a much better command of NE's system in his third year than Barkley has of Philly's. Think of it this way, Barkley went 6 - 14 as the most experienced QB in Kelly's system while playing with better personnel than Tebow. NE's coaches had valid reasons to trust Mallett more than Tebow. What has Barkley proven?
- Judging a QB is always subjective without knowing the play, coverage, WR assignments, blocking, etc. For example, what is the difference between "holding the ball too long" and "being patient in the pocket?" On one play Mayock criticized Tebow for not waiting for his primary receiver to break open. But had he done so one could easily say Tebow was "locking onto his receiver." If the receiver didn't break open on time then (depending on the play) Tebow would be expected to look somewhere else.
- The ultimate unknown is what the Eagles are looking for in the QB3 position. If they wanted a pure-passing developmental project that could help run the scout team during the week, Tebow would have never been signed. It is also unknown what the coaches were looking for in Tebow's limited time on the field and in practices during the week. It's impossible to grade Tebow or any other player without knowing what the questions are.
In the end, had Tebow lit the Ravens up last night then the narrative would be much easier to write in the sense that Tebow provided the period at the end of the sentence that Barkley wrote. He didn't make any terrible decisions last night, but didn't wow either. It was a "meh" performance. The fact that it gave the media and fans rooting against him some confirmation bias red meat shouldn't worry anyone rooting for Tebow to succeed, knowing that the coaches for this team aren't concerned about outward appearances for a spot on the team that is, at best, a supporting role.
I'm quelling my anxiety by making believe you're Chip Kelly. And it feels so, so good.
DeleteJust go along with it.
LOL Kathryn: I am quelling mine by believing that if Ryan Lindley, Matt Flynn & countless others can be on rosters surely there has to be room for Tebow. You know how I feel about his completion % as it relates to other QB's. Just imagine for arguments sake that on the plays this preseason all of his recievers would have run the right routes. Its not a stretch to believe he could be up around the 55% mark.
DeleteHopefully the Eagles will let us know what their intentions are soon.
That's a good point re receivers, though it's only fair to say he could've also gotten to 55% by reducing his own mistakes. Now if both sides could reduce their mistakes enough to meet halfway we might have something here folks! ...And I could stop drinking.
DeleteOne other point, and it can be taken as a positive or a negative. If the coaches were that interested in seeing Tebow throw in the limited time he was playing, they would have called a different play on 2nd and goal from the half yard line. They just called a simple dive. Contrast that decision with the number of pass plays called for Barkley who only played 10% more snaps.
ReplyDeleteThese are all empty words on a paper. My eye test is telling me that Tim had two good passing series in the first game and the rest of the way was sub par. His ground game is there, we all knew that that never was a problem for him. We all can make valid and not so valid points about why he isn't producing as a passer, but as of right now if I was Chip, nothing Tim has done in the passing game would encourage me beyond that first couple of drives in his first game.
ReplyDeleteI am starting to feel silly to myself, I want him to be better so much, it's getting to me on a personal level. I would love for him to get a better supporting cast moving forward, and for some better throwing numbers. Thus far, that's not gonna cut it, imho. He might make the team, because he's not Barkley, but I'm not so sure he sees the field and gets to be a contributor.
Take care!
Well...here's what Chip has to say about Tim holding the ball too long.
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/EliotShorrParks/status/635845899785211904?lang=en
And a comment about zone read plays.
https://twitter.com/EliotShorrParks/status/635844728379043840?lang=en
I think the lesson here is that we're not at the point with Tim that we can necessarily trust our eyes. He's learning the system and playing with other players that are learning the system. We see mistakes and draw conclusions without the benefit of Chip's perspective and knowledge of the plays.
The fact that Chip continues to defend Tim against his critics at this stage is really leavening to me. It makes me hold out hope that he does see the potential in the guy.
Kathryn. I agree. I just listened to Kelly's press conference and transcribed his comments (see below). I'm also very encouraged by Chip speaking the plain truth about how a series or play goes down with the 4th stringers in the game. I watched the NFL REPLAY online with the Ravens' announcers and amazingly, they highlighted a number of issues with the receivers running wrong routes ('leaving Tebow hanging'). It's so easy for announcers & reporters to flippantly say Tebow is holding on to the ball too long or not going through his reads; you really can't say that until you have looked at the film from coaches camera angle. If only they had that angle on NFL REPLAY for preseason ... they don't.
DeleteI would have loved for Tebow to have lit it up against the Ravens for the 3 series he was in; but, I'll take ZERO INTERCEPTIONS and some versatility displayed as a consolation to be sure. It would be nice to see a series with Tebow running with the 2's or 3's; we'll have to wait for regular season games I guess. :-)
Looking forward to next week. Ron
Chip Kelly Press Conf (August 24th)
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/videos/videos/Press-Pass-Chip-Kelly/dfd63dc1-fcc9-48a6-be57-5e835e390b68#watch
REPORTER. "How would you assess the play of Barkley & Tebow the other night. I mean, it seemed like Tebow kind of held the ball for a while."
KELLY. "Yeah, people are covered too. The one he (Tebow) held for a while, everybody was covered, then they (Ravens) ended up getting a penalty for defensive holding. So, I meanm, I think you have to look at it, he missed one on a zone play, a zone drop where he could have hit it. But, I thought both those guys were just up and down."
Excellent article over at Bleedinggreennation.com called. The Case For Tebow. Its in the fan posts by sactogary.
ReplyDeleteOne of the best breakdowns on Tim's performance Sat. night I have read. Besides mine of course. :) ;).
Anyone know where I can get a streaming replay of the game? I'd like to take some screenshots of some of the run plays.
ReplyDeleteBasic thesis: Kevin Monongai had more yardage than any RB from either team, with 10 carries for 87 yards. All but 2 of those carries came after Tim's big option run. Kevin Monongai is not some awesome runner; he's a UDFA from Villanova who has zero chance of making the team. So how did he wind up with an 8.7 YPC average?
Simple: the threat of Tim froze the OLB, allowing the line to open up huge holes for the RB.
Ed, I think the league pass is free for 7 days in preseason. I might be wrong but I have read it somewhere along the way. I think they offer multiple camera views.
DeleteI found a great quote on an article about Tim:
ReplyDelete"For such a terrible looking QB, doesn't he lead the QB's in drives led/offensive points scored? 10 per quarter, I think. There are a lot of teams, 1,2 and 3's not scoring that much. Yet, because he leads ugly = worst QB ever to suit up...lol"
If this is true, and I haven't checked it, that pretty big. IMO, the only thing a QB has to do, lead scoring drives. Everything else is white noise.
Tim explains in this article his thinking on running the ball in on that TD attempt that got so widely panned (including by me). Bottom line, he was playing it safe. Some would argue he needs to get secure enough with his passing to believe that passing to the receiver in that situation would have been just as safe, and I don't disagree with that; but for his familiarity with the system at this juncture and the circumstances such as they were at the moment of the play he can't really be faulted.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/philadelphia-eagles-tim-tebow-if-he-thinks-he-will-make-the-roster-082515
Its good to get that explanation from him. He emphasized that the coaches stress turnovers & all week prior we had heard they were excited by him & would make the roster unless he had a terrible rest of the preseason. I hope this holds true.
DeleteI don't disagree with what Kathryn said about being just as comfortable throwing it as he would be running it in that situation & hopefully that will come with time.
Sometimes its hard as a fan (because we all want to see him succeed) but I think the best perspective in following his game is allowing him to play it his way. He plays in ways we are not used to seeing. He is a low turnover QB who makes more big plays than costly mistakes. It might look ugly at times but throughout the course of a long game (or season) those qualities will begin to assert themselves.
I am going to try to not make comparisons with him vs the other QB's. Chip said Tim is the only QB they do read option with & the look of the offense seems to change when he is playing.
As long as he is executing the way Chip wants. He should be ok.
One last thing: I REALLY REALLY hope we get to see how the rushing offense would look with him quarterbacking it with the first team. The running lanes created the other night looked more like highways than they did lanes.
Murray & Matthews & Sproles sure would be fun to watch with room to run like that.
The explanation about it being 1st down and goal is a great point. Like I said earlier, I thought the criticism of that play was off base.
DeleteHowever, when he stood in the pocket to pass, he looked like a squirrel in the street about to get run over. The best adjective I can think of to describe his demeanor is "frantic". Made me cringe. If he's losing ME, I shudder to wonder what the coaches may think.
Bottom line, he needs a solid passing day to put the naysayers to rest. Hopefully the stage is set for that in the 4th game!
I don't agree with 'allowing him to play it his way' because he absolutely has to push the boundaries of his comfort zone if he ever wants to be viewed as more than a glorified halfback by the rest of the league. But I suspect you may have meant that in the context of having patience and understanding the play from his perspective at this point in time.
DeleteKathryn:
DeleteYes thats how I meant it, in the context of his understanding & perspective now. Any player should continue pushing the boundries of his comfort zone. That is the only way to grow & improve. I remember when Michael Jordan retired from basketball for 3 years he looked a little rusty for about a 1/2 season & he said upon his return that he had to relearn the game all over again. Jordan was returning to the same team with the same coach & same players he had played with previously.
In Tim's case everything is new. Not to mention having new physical tools that need to mesh with his mental understanding of the game. In addition to having to prove himself all over again whereas Jordan was already an established player. Hopefully the coaches will give him the time he needs to readjust.
ED: There was one play he stood in the pocket for what seemed like forever. I almost couldn't believe how long he held the ball but what I took away from that was that he had the courage to stand in there & not flee. I thought that may have been a growth moment for him because it was always his instinct to take off at the first hint of his primary reciever being covered. I thought he was surveying the field & took a couple of extensive looks to both sides. There was a play that Chip referenced that the recievers were covered & there was defensive holding called I am not sure if it was this one or not.
Bottom Line: He definetley looks like at times like his confidence is lacking & needs a solid passing day to put the naysayers to rest. I hope he has it.
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