21 teams have an undisputed starting QB. Those teams are Denver, Green Bay, Chicago, Arizona, Atlanta, New Orleans, Carolina, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, Miami, New England, New York Giants, Detroit, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Dallas, Cincinnati, Baltimore, Kansas City and Washington. Most of these teams have already signed a backup, and the remainder are unlikely to be interested in Tebow, with one exception I will address later.
8 teams have a presumptive starter but need to hedge their bets. Tennessee, Philadelphia, New York Jets, Buffalo, Tampa, St Louis, and Oakland are in this situation to varying degrees. All but Tennessee and Buffalo has put a fallback option in place. Minnesota is in a category all by itself, with 3 possible starters on the roster, none of which may work out. I don't see any of these teams going for Tim, as his popularity would undermine their hoped-for starter.
3 teams unequivocally need a new starting QB: Houston, Jacksonville, and Cleveland. The general consensus is that each of these teams will draft a QB in the first round in hopes of finding their new starter. They have the #1, #3, and #4 picks in the draft respectively, with St Louis at #2.
There are 3 consensus top tier QB prospects: Bridgewater, Bortles, and Manziel. St Louis shows no indications of drafting a QB. Therefore Houston, Jacksonville, and Cleveland should each get to pick one of those prospects if they want to.
Houston and Jacksonville have both recently signed veteran QBs to serve as mentors and start the first part of the season if their drafted rookie QB is not ready. Both teams will stick with a pro-style offense. That means they will probably lean towards the two "traditional" QBs in the draft, Bridgewater and Bortles. It also means they probably aren't interested in Tim. As we all know, Jacksonville would not touch Tebow with a ten foot pole regardless.
That probably leaves the Browns to pick Manziel if they want him. Here is where it gets interesting.
Kyle Shanahan is the new offensive coordinator for the Browns. Shanahan is perhaps the leading proponent of mobile quarterbacks in the NFL. His innovative read-option offense with RGIII took the NFL by storm 2 years ago. In fact, his continued addiction to QB runs was arguably the root cause of his father's estrangement from RGIII last year.
The Browns have not said what kind of offensive system they will implement. I have to assume they hired Shanahan because they liked what he did with the Redskins. Having been burned repeatedly in their quest for a traditional NFL quarterback, it is plausible that owner Jimmy Haslam decided to pursue the new model implemented so successfully by San Francisco and Seattle: a mobile young QB who can evade pressure, a balanced run/pass game with a good dose of read option, and a hard-nosed defense.
Manziel fits that model well. He is an electrifying improviser with impressive mobility. However, picking Manziel comes with significant risk. First, not everyone believes he is ready to play for the NFL. Even new model QBs have to be comfortable in the pocket. There are also some questions about his maturity and character. Most critically, his size and playing style put him at increased risk of injury.
One other thing Shananan must have learned from last season is the perils of a fragile QB. Smallish runners can be very effective in the NFL if they are fast and elusive, but sooner or later the big guys will catch up with them. RGIII took a pounding and eventually was lost due to injury. If the Browns build their offensive system around Manziel, Shanahan better have at least one and preferrably two mobile backup QBs ready to go.
Right now I see the Browns as the best and possibly the only prospect for Tim. The Browns will see how the draft plays out before committing to a backup, so don't expect any movement in the next 6 weeks. However, if they do pick Manziel, they will move fairly quickly to lock down their backup situation before OTAs start in May.
Manziel fits that model well. He is an electrifying improviser with impressive mobility. However, picking Manziel comes with significant risk. First, not everyone believes he is ready to play for the NFL. Even new model QBs have to be comfortable in the pocket. There are also some questions about his maturity and character. Most critically, his size and playing style put him at increased risk of injury.
One other thing Shananan must have learned from last season is the perils of a fragile QB. Smallish runners can be very effective in the NFL if they are fast and elusive, but sooner or later the big guys will catch up with them. RGIII took a pounding and eventually was lost due to injury. If the Browns build their offensive system around Manziel, Shanahan better have at least one and preferrably two mobile backup QBs ready to go.
Tebow would be a great fit in such a system. He is mature and can help Manziel deal with the spotlight. And he is durable, perhaps more durable than any QB in the NFL. Head Coach Mike Pettine knows Tebow as well as anyone in the NFL, having coached against him and with him.
Finally, do not discount the state of mind of owner Jimmy Haslam. He knows the "factory of sadness" needs a jolt of excitement. Haslam is a retail businessman. He understands the power and value of marketing and branding. While other teams would shun the epic circus that would accompany Manziel and Tebow on the same team, Haslam might embrace it as an antitode to the loserville mentality that has gripped the Browns for the last decade.
Right now I see the Browns as the best and possibly the only prospect for Tim. The Browns will see how the draft plays out before committing to a backup, so don't expect any movement in the next 6 weeks. However, if they do pick Manziel, they will move fairly quickly to lock down their backup situation before OTAs start in May.
I mentioned one exception from the list of teams with established QBs. There has been much speculation that the Patriots would prefer to trade Mallett for draft picks rather than losing him to free agency after the season. Mallett wants to start, and many feel he is ready. It seems like rumors of a trade have died down, perhaps because the draft is so deep in QB prospects. However, it is still possible that a team could decide during the draft that Mallett was a less risky choice than the remaining options, or they could decide after the draft that they didn't get what they needed.
If they do trade Mallett, Tebow would be a natural choice to back up Tom Brady, probably in conjunction with a rookie QB drafted in the lower half of the draft. The Patriots would be able to objectively evaluate his improvements in throwing mechanics by comparing to training camp last year. Belichick has already demonstrated he doesn't care about the "circus", so a Pats decision on Tebow would be based solely on football reasons.
So that is it. I see the Browns and Patriots as the only prospects for Tebow to get signed between now and June. If you see any others, let's analyze in comments.
Seahawks. Secure starter. Run oriented offense. Strong D. Mobile smallish QB. Only Tarvaris on roster.
ReplyDeleteAfter looking hard at that, I think you might be right. Jackson was on a 1 year contract, and I haven't heard anything about it being renewed. So it might be a possible. Not sure what Pete Carroll thinks of Tim. I'll do some research.
DeleteIf Tebow has to be a backup I believe Seattle would be a good place. Russell Wilson seems like a down to earth guy who is not a Diva. Therefore I do not believe he would feel threatened by Tebow's presence. Seatlle also has a team identity that could handle Tebow. Richard Sherman etc...its all about the team. Pete Carroll is a progressive thinker with a youthful energy that could also handle this. He once tried to recruit Tim to come to USC but knew he would have a hard time landing him when he saw a Gator mailbox in Tim's driveway.
DeleteI believe that Tebow's eventual return into the New England Patriot fold was a foregone conclusion even before he was officially cut. Tebow was entrenched in Southern California training at USC within days of being cut, where he remained for over 5 months. In addition, Tim Tebow kept a suspiciously low profile throughout this time, granting no interviews, and having minimum public appearances. My guess is that Belichick told Tim to lay low and train hard -- and that is exactly what he has done.
ReplyDeleteI'm also not convinced that the remain 3 teams you mentioned -- Houston, Cleveland, and Jacksonville --- are necessarily sold on ANY of the top 3 QBs in the draft (Manziel, Bortles, Bridgewater). Who's to say any of these teams may not take a good hard look at Tebow before the draft and, IF the rumors are true that Tebow has made some significant improvement, that any one of those teams may decide that Tim Tebow's playing experience in the NFL under pressure is a better option than young quarterbacks fresh from the draft.
Finally, I tend to think that Tim Tebow's so-called "circus atmosphere" is going to be less of a deterrent this season than in season's past, because if anyone thinks Johnny "Football" Manziel isn't going to be coming with some baggage and a circus, they'd better think again. Tim Tebow is a mature professional, and a fine role model for any team. If his improves are, indeed, as significant as rumored, he should be a viable option for more than just New England or Cleveland
I believe the same about the Patriots, but I have no proof of it. I try to guard against wishful thinking, and this feels a lot like wishful thinking. So I try to take a more objective viewpoint, which is that the move would make sense for the Pats if and only if they trade Mallett.
DeleteI think we can categorically rule out Jacksonville, if we look at it from the perspective of the guys who are making the decision. There is just no way that Caldwell and Bradley are going to risk enraging the fan base by signing Tim and then not playing him or cutting him.
I'm hopeful his improvements are noted by others too. But until he demonstrates IN A GAME that his mechanics will not revert to old form under pressure, nobody is going to believe this makeover is different than the previous ones.
The Browns have been holding their cards close to their vest so far this offseason. It seems like they have been very cautious & very deliberative in their actions. There do not seem to be any visible signs of distress given their recent history. No knee jerk reactions or impulsive decision making. This has been very impressive to watch. Especially considering they have a first year head coach & GM. Whether or not this approach will payoff remains to be seen but so far its been impressive nontheless.
ReplyDeleteIf the read option is indeed the offense they want to run under Shanahan, then there is no reason for them to wait until the draft & hope Manziel is still available. Tebow is available now & if they would be willing to take on the attention having both Manziel & Tebow on the team would bring, then they should have no problem embracing the attention Tebow would bring by himself. Why should Tebow have to settle for being a backup to any undrafted QB. He has already won games in the league & earned the right to at least compete to be their starter.
Even though Houston & Jax will be running a pro style offense there is still a chance they will take Manziel. Houston especially is taking a big risk by not selecting Manziel. They run the risk of having Jax select him & competing against them twice a year in their own division & it would put alot of extra pressure on any of the other QB's they did choose.
I like some of the optimism expressed in the comments above. Seattle might make sense. Also Washington as a backup to RG III might make sense. RG has alot to prove this year & if Jay Gruden listens to his brother Jon he knows Tebow belongs in the league. Unfortunately though other than New England I just do not see any team willing to give Tebow the legitimate shot he deserves. Which is very very sad indeed.
l think people misconstrue why most teams won't take a chance on Tebow. The fundamental reason is that no coach wants his decisions subjected to external pressure. They want to make roster decisions based on the best judgment of the coaching staff, not based on pressure from the fan base.
DeleteEveryone saw what happened in Denver and New York. Tim's enormous popularity led to deafening calls to replace the franchise QB as soon as he struggled. No coach wants to bring that on himself.
Personally, I think that is a crock. But that is what the people making the roster decisions think. We can't predict their actions without understanding how they think.
Once you get that, you realize there are only two situations where anyone is likely to give Tim a chance. The first is a team where both the head coach and quarterback have massive credibility. It has to be inconceivable that anyone would ever question the coach or call for the QB to be benched. There is really only one team that meets that description: the Patriots. Hence it was no surprise they were the only team willing to sign him last summer.
That is why I don't think Tim will be considered as backup for Newton, Wilson, Kap, or RGIII, even though his playing style is similar. All of them are still developing and still subject to periods of struggle. No team wants to make that situation worse by adding to the pressure on them. That pressure could be the tipping point, as it apparently was for Mark Sanchez.
That is also why Jacksonville will not touch him under any circumstances. Fan pressure on the coaches to play him would be magnified tenfold there.
The other situation is a genuine blank slate. Right now Cleveland is the only team that meets that description. Houston has tipped their hand by hiring Fitzpatrick.
>>Everyone saw what happened in Denver and New York. Tim's enormous popularity led to deafening calls to replace the franchise QB as soon as he struggled. No coach wants to bring that on himself.
DeletePersonally, I think that is a crock.<<
It's absolutely a crock. The Broncos had a staggering 13 losses in 2010, then started 2011 at 1-4. If Orton had been getting the job done there would have been no deafening calls to replace him with Tim; and in fact for most of 2010 there were no such calls. It wasn't until 2011 that the fans decided they'd had enough.
And Mark Sanchez is a special case of mental fragility that should not be considered a benchmark among his QB contemporaries. The cracks were already showing in his nerves in 2010, long before he was asked to cope with having a playoff-winning backup. At any rate, the same principle applies: winning will shut the fans up. Or, if you're going to lose, at least don't buttfumble or get shut out at home. That's not a lot to ask, and if you have to scapegoat a guy that's for the most part relegated to the bench in order to explain why you're falling apart on the field then maybe you should join a quilting club or some other low pressure, non-NFL endeavor.
>>But that is what the people making the roster decisions think. <<
Agreed. Damn shame.
Kathryn:
DeleteYour commentary made me laugh :) & it was right on. If these coaches let their egos outrun their brains then maybe they souldn't be coaching in the NFL.
Ok assuming no team will bring Tim in as a backup because of fan pressure, then the question needs to be asked why will no team make him their unquestioned starter??
Alot of teams year after year start quarterbacks who are far less successful than Tim has been.
It makes you think that:
A) They don't think he is good enough. (His throwing did need to be improved so lets see if this new motion takes the throwing issue off the table).
B) Just winning is not as important as we thought. How you win is.
C) The coaching in the league is lousy & unimaginative.
D) All of the above.
E) Something I missed.
The 32 NFL head coaches have risen through decades of competition with their peers to reach the pinnacle of their profession in the most demanding and complex team sport in the world. It would be foolish to conclude they are all stupid or cowardly, and the height of arrogance to assume we know their business better than they do.
DeleteThe truth is painful but clear: Tim is not good enough at passing for any team to commit to him as a starter, and too popular to be a backup.
Bill Belichick is the most respected coach in the league, and will probably be remembered as one of the greatest NFL coaches of all time. Belichick got a very close, extended look at Tim in practice and games last summer. Belichick concluded he was not worth a roster spot.
Yet.
Few athletes would be willing to do what Tim has done, to sit out a full season to focus on improving his technique. I have great hopes that he will improved his mechanics to the point where someone will decide he is worth the risk. He has unquestioned intangibles such as competitiveness, toughness, and leadership. If he can get his throwing accuracy up to an acceptable standard, I believe he will get another shot.
You are absolutely correct. Please accept my apology.
DeleteOh no, I am sorry. That was not directed at you at all. It was a general observation on the state of mind that many of us find ourselves in. I am as guilty as anyone.
DeleteTo be clear, I was referring, not to NFL coaches, but to theoretical starters that can't handle the pressure of a strong backup. And I hold to that.
ReplyDeleteAs to the admonition above, I agree that we should avoid categorical statements about NFL coaches, GM's and so on. It's a given that they know their business better than we do, but at the same time let's be careful not to relegate them to some sort of elite group that is not to be questioned. I'm not going to reserve the right to question my elected officials and request second opinions from my doctors, yet draw the line at criticizing Tony Sparano because he's been knocking around the League for 20 years and was once HC of the Miami Dolphins. And I'm certainly not going to pay deference to Rex Ryan's judgment because his status as HC of the Jets somehow renders him immune to personal biases and external pressures. If that were established propriety then most analysts would be out of a job for lack of material to discuss.
Like members of every profession, we're talking about individuals with varied strengths, weaknesses, and motivations. And, like in every profession, some are absolute masters at the job, most are competent to above average, and some have no business being there. Greg Schiano had all the football knowledge he needed but suffered from a terribly calibrated leadership approach. Gary Kubiak is a world class coach, yet he's out of a job because he refused to do anything but throw the same crap at the wall in the hopes that it would eventually stick. That's not a failure of expertise and authority - it's a failure of judgment. It happens, and it's not a sweeping indictment.
Does any of this apply to what's happening with Tim? Not on the whole - only blacklist wingnuts would suggest such a thing. But in a few cases, it's not at all arrogant to suggest that some teams that have avoided Tim like the plague on the basis of his "popularity problem" (a line of reasoning I believe that you also took issue with if my interpretation of your 'crock' remark is correct) would serve themselves - or could have served themselves - by revisiting their logic. The argument has been made by far more objective observers than us.
At any rate, it's a moot point because they're not going to. It's up to Tim to revise their calculus for them, if it is to be revised at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's the bottom line that you have been emphasizing.
Kathryn, my comments were not directed at you either. They were a general commentary on the state of mind of many Tebow fans today. Having said that, some of your points are worth responding to and exploring further.
DeleteIt's easy to say Mark Sanchez should have toughened up and played. It's also easy to forget that he was 25, only 3 years out of college, and under near-daily scrutiny in the largest media market in the nation. Yeah, he signed up for that and he was well compensated. But it doesn't make it any easier when you are that young. I am inclined to give him some slack.
I agree that coaches are anything but infallible. However, any attempt to attribute Tim's situation to incompetent coaches must reckon with Bill Belichick.
Belichick is the most respected and successful head coach in the NFL. He is so secure and non-beholden to the league that he skipped the coach's photo this year. No excuses, just didn't go: http://nesn.com/2014/03/bill-belichick-skips-head-coaches-group-photo-at-nfl-owners-meetings-photo/
Belichick brought Tim in for training camp and preseason and watched him closely for 10 weeks. He saw him on the practice field, at games, in meetings, and on film. At the end of that process, he decided Tim was not worth one of 53 roster spots he had to allocate.
Given Belichick's record, I think we can rule out incompetence. That only leaves two possible explanations for why he cut Tim: A) football reasons, or B) non-football reasons.
There are some who believe non-football reasons were the cause. In my opinion, there is just no rational evidence to suggest that. That thinking is nothing more than anger combined with a refusal to contemplate the alternative, because it makes us unhappy. Suggestions of a blacklist come from the same mindset that brings forth 911 truther conspiracy theories, and deserves no more consideration.
That leaves football reasons. The inescapable conclusion, painful though it is to accept, is that Bill Belichick concluded that Tim is not as good as Ryan Mallett. And if we accept Bill Belichick's football judgement, then perhaps we have to ask ourselves whether Rex Ryan or John Elway deserves some leeway in their judgement as well.
At the end of the day, as you observe, it is up to Tim to fix this. He has spent 7 solid months working on his mechanics. If his accuracy has improved, I am confident that someone will give him another shot. His intangibles are just too high. If, after that much work, he still does not have full command of his passing repertoire, then maybe it will be time for him to change positions.
I'm on board with that aside from some minor points that I'm content to respectfully disagree on and withhold from discussion.
DeleteIn other news, I noticed he's been working out more at UCLA in the last month or so than he had been in the fall. I wonder if this means House is comfortable enough with his rewiring to let him work with Noel Mazzone, or if he's just looking for a change of pace.
He has also popped up in Arizona several times this month. I'm guessing that he is getting some training in at the API facility there. They are the gold standard for fitness training of elite athletes.
DeleteIt is good to know our misuderstandings have been cleared up. I enjoy the discussions on this blog very much. The commentaries always give me alot to think about & are more interesting than the stuff your hear in the general media.
ReplyDeleteWe all know he has had shortcomings to overcome as a passer & hopefully they will be a thing of the past when he straps on his helmet again. I also agree he was released from the Patriots based on football reasons alone & nothing else. Still not sure that was the case in Denver & NY circumstances there were different but thats over now & I have let it go. All that matters now is that he seizes his opportunity when he gets it.
One day if he reaches the heights we think he is capable of what happened in Denver & New York will be seen as the impetus that launched his career.
@NFL4Christians Tells @Jaguars Sign #QB #TimTebow ! #NFL #Jaguars #TeamSoul #Fl #RobbyTebow #RichardMills #Christians #Support #Christians
ReplyDelete@EaglesCoverUp Tells @Jaguars Sign #QB #TimTebow ! #NFL #Jaguars #TeamSoul #Fl #RobbyTebow #RichardMills #Christians #Support #Christians
ReplyDelete#TimTebowFans Tells @Jaguars To Sign #QB #TimTebow ! #NFL #Jaguars #TeamSoul #Fl #RobbyTebow #RichardMills #Christians #Support #Christians
ReplyDelete#TimTebowFans Tell @Jaguars To Sign #QB #TimTebow ! #NFL #Jaguars #TeamSoul #Fl #RobbyTebow #RichardMills #Christians #Support #Christians
ReplyDeleteI see the Pats are taking a look at Manziel. Interesting. Their first pick doesn't come until near the end of the first round.
ReplyDeleteLooking at Bridgewater too, and looked at Bortles 2 weeks ago. Could be they are preparing to grab Tom Brady's successor, with the intent of having him as understudy for a few years, like Green Bay did with Aaron Rogers. I don't see them spending a 1st round draft pick though. Belichick and Brady want to win another super bowl together, and they are unlikely to give up the immediate impact that a 1st rounder could have.
DeleteHas also been some speculation that they are doing it to posture for a trade for Mallett.
My first impression was that it was an indication that they were serious about moving Mallett. The rumor that they may trade him to the Texans for draft picks bears that out. Not sure what drafting a QB (in any round) would mean for Tebow's chances of getting another look from them. Might shut the door on the Pats altogether. Might not, who knows. Personally I still don't see the Browns taking a look at him.
DeleteLooking back at BB's history, when he has a very strong backup, he goes with 2 QB's on the roster. When he has an iffy backup or a new rookie, he usually goes with 3 QB's. I suspect that if they draft a QB, they will probably bring in a 3rd QB for training camp, and make a decision at the end of camp how many to carry into the season.
DeleteThey pretty much have to unload Mallett this season, correct? Otherwise, he's off the hook and they get nothing for him.
DeleteThat is technically true, but needs to be put in perspective. A great many NFL players leave in free agency when their contracts end. Others are released early. The Patriots lost 4 players this spring to free agency. No big deal; they replaced some of them with other free agents, and they will replace others in the draft.
DeleteSo it's not like the Pats HAVE to unload Mallett. After all, they will have gotten 5 years of solid backup QB for a 3rd round pick, which is not bad. A whole lot of 3rd round picks don't stick around that long.
What makes Mallett different from other players is the perceived market value of quaterbacks. If the Pats can get some desperate team to cough up a high draft pick this spring, then that is a better outcome than not getting no pick next spring when he leaves. The problem with that thinking is the premise that someone will part with a 1st or 2nd round pick for a player who might or might not be a starting caliber QB. But hope springs eternal, right?
Here is some good discussion on that: http://fansided.com/2014/04/03/nfl-trade-rumors-ryan-mallett-trade-value-extremely-low/#!CHcY9
Delete"I’m not sure Mallett would even command a third-rounder at this point. I think this is a case where we might be overrating the local talent a bit. In the end, I think Mallett will have more value to the team being on the Patriots’ roster than the late-round pick you might be able to receive in return for trading him."
Here is a good article on what the Patriots may be up to:
ReplyDeletehttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/03/inevitably-pats-must-plan-for-life-without-brady/
It was very strange to see Joe Namath in a Rams uniform, Johhny Unitas playing for anyone other than the Colts & Joe Montana end his career in Kansas City. It still doesn't look right even in old highlight reels. When Brady's time is over I hope it is with the Pats.
ReplyDeleteTo add to my comment above:
DeleteI hope that like Steve Young, Tebow is the Quarterback that as the article says falls into their lap. Both being left handed throwers would be just a coincidence. I don't think this developement would surprise us commentators on this blog but it will surely be great to see the media reaction.
If you hang out on Twitter at all you've probably run across this, but I figured I'd post this nice compliment from Richard Sherman. Happy Friday, peeps.
ReplyDeleteSherman on Tebow: “He’s really, really, realllly cool. Real competitor. Really wants to get back into the game and find his way back. Just a wonderful person.”
I saw some quotes about the plane ride they took, but I had not seen that quote. I wasn't a big Sherman fan, as I hate trash talk, but that makes me respect him a good deal more.
DeleteThanks for posting that, BTW.
DeleteRonDog ... APRIL 7TH, 2014.
ReplyDeleteWell written post Ed. Also, thanks for creating this site for discussing.
I think we need to add another team to the List ... Titans. I had forgotton that a lisfranc injury brought down Jake Locker for the 2013 season (in week 10). He was also hurt for Weeks 6 & 7 last season.
A couple of things point to the Titans a potential landing spot for Tebow:
- Titan's didn't pick up Locker's $13M 5th Year option on his rookie contract.
- Locker is recovering from a Lisfranc injury. As a physical, mobile QB, this injury is challenging to come back from. It's not a given Locker makes it back to 100% in the 1st half of next season.
- In his career, Locker has played in only 23 of a possible 48 games. Not a good stat. Shoulder, Hip & Lisfranc were the major injuries.
Needless to say, the Titans may be looking for QB options this year. The Titans signed Charlie Whitehurst; I'm sure this was to have an 'arm' in camp who knew Whisenhunt's offense & terminology.
The question is, would Whisenhunt be the kind of offensive mind who would experiment with read-option/zone-read offensive concepts. Not that Tebow has to run these to be successful; but, they are a natural option to utilize with Tebow under center. Whisenhunt has recently had fairly traditional offensive sets relying on pin-point accuracy and timing from QB's like Warner & Rivers. He found out the hard way his timing-driven offense didn't work with QB's like Skelton, Kolb, Lindley. Maybe he'll go back to his roots with Big Ben and the Steelers in 2004-6 and bring in a mobile QB who is hard to bring down and can stretch the field with the long ball???
FWIW, here's a video clip of Whisenhunt discussing Tebow: http://www.nfl.com/videos/arizona-cardinals/09000d5d829d6adb/What-Tim-Tebow-brings-to-Jets-Ken-Whisenhunt
Thoughts from Ed and others on the Titans?
Again Ed, great site. RonDog.
RonDog, that occurred to me as well. As much as they go out of their way to publicly support Jake Locker, the Titans have to be considering a Plan B given his poor luck vis a vi injuries. And in that context the natural inclination would be to seek a player known for his durability. In that regard Tim certainly comes to mind, though there are numerous other factors as you have pointed out, and at any rate getting a look from any team seems to be falling in the extreme outside chance category. Locker is well-liked and a bit of a sympathetic character, to boot. I'm not sure how that factors into the decision, but sense that it does.
DeleteI do not think Charlie Whitehurst is a camp arm. They would not have given him $2M in guaranteed money and a $2.5M cap hit if they did not intend to keep him around as Locker's backup. That does not leave much room for Tim.
DeleteIn an unrelated observation, Charlie Whitehurst looks like he should be swinging a sword in "Lord of the Rings" or "Game of Thrones."
RonDog April 9th, 2014 at 8:08 am ...
ReplyDeleteKathryn. I agree with your comment, "falling in the extreme outside chance category". But, when Freeman & Weber get a look from the Bears, Orlovsky & McCoy are added to rosters, and countless other QB's who have less 'actual' proven success under center, it is maddening Tebow doesn't get a look.
However, if Tebow does catch on with a team, I suspect the workout(s) and transaction will be done behind closed doors and discretely.
I do think, like Ed postulates above, the pairing of Manziel & Tebow on the same team has a ton of benefits: Insurance, durability, escape-ability, etc. It would be interesting to see Manziel & Tebow in a two QB set (a la ULM):
www.sbnation.com/college-football/2013/8/13/4616042/todd-berry-ulm-football-offense
The only question would be, can Manziel & Tebow co-exist on the same team? Would Manziel be mature enough to negotiate the land-mines of this pairing? Could the team's front office and coaching staff manage through the challenges?
I suspect a pairing that would work well would be Tebow backing up Wilson in Seattle. Both pretty mature QB's for their age with a common goal of doing anything to win. I'd support that landing spot for Tebow.
Here's to some news before summer comes. RonDog
I have always liked the idea of Tim playing for the Steelers. A good football organization & the city Pittsburgh is a tough gritty town which fits Tim's reputation for toughness. An established starter at Quarterback not unlike Brady with a few Super Bowls of his own.. The one big difference between Brady and Big Ben is Ben's propensity for being injured because of his physical style of play. I believe he would make a good backup here.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I like the Steelers better I also think the Saints might be a good place to go as a backup. They also have an undisputed starter & a Super Bowl head coach. Who is an offensive innovator. Who like Belichick comes from the Parcells coaching tree.
Of course since we are all Tebow fans it is easy for us to try & make a case for him almost anywhere. It is my belief he is better more polished & deservers more consideration than any of the college quarterbacks in this years draft. The first team to have the guts to take a chance with him will rewarded handsomely. Looking forward to seeing his new mechanics.
I know I left out alot of details but would be interested in your thoughts fellow commentators.
Thanks
Thanks
I like the idea of Tim playing for the Steelers too, for many of the same reasons you do. Likewise for the Saints. Last year at this time I picked the Patriots and Saints as the only two potential spots for Tim, and that turned out to be one of the few things I have gotten right.
DeleteUnfortunately I don't see much interest in either of them now, probably because there is nobody within either organization to advocate for him. Would love to see either one, but I doubt it happens.
RonDog April 9, 2014 at 6:12pm ...
ReplyDeleteMan 'o man. The Steelers would be the perfect home for Tebow. I completely agree with you guys.
The only problem I have with the Steelers is their current OC - Todd Haley. I'm not a huge fan and don't get the impression he is very creative and/or has the ability to incorporate an offense that takes advantage of a mobile QB like Tebow, Kaep, Wilson, etc.
But, I suppose he hasn't been given a chance to do this yet with some pocket passing QB's like Warner, Cassel & a recently-less-mobile Roethlisberger the last 2 years.
But, talk about a 'blue-collar-perfect-fit' between Tebow & Steelers. I don't expect Roethlisberger will be the guy 2 years down the road, two many hits with so much of his game requiring his ability to shake tackles.
I'd love to see Tebow with the Steelers, great call. RonDog
Looks like the Browns will show their hand in the next two weeks:
ReplyDeletehttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/10/mike-pettine-expects-to-sign-veteran-qb-before-first-minicamp/
RonDog / April 10, 2014
DeleteNice find.
I guess it's time to recycle Rex Grossman in Cleveland. I'm curious if the Browns will bring a QB in for a 30 day contract or a backup QB contract through 2014. I agree that the QB they bring in for mini-camp may tip their hand.
I think the Browns' coaching staff may like Hoyer; heck, I thought Hoyer looked ok in 1 of the 3 games he started last year. He passed for 3 TD's / 3 INT's in his 1st game, 2 TD's / 0 INT's in his 2nd. He went down with the ACL in his 3rd game after only a few plays. I'm not convinced he is a starting QB yet; but, he did QB the Browns to 2 wins; not a small feat. :-)
Here are the details of the Hoyer contract (it isn't an onerous contract for the Browns at all):
5/16/2013: Signed a two-year, $1.965 million contract. The deal contains $250,000 guaranteed. 2014: $1 million (+ $250,000 roster bonus due 3/15), 2015: Free Agent
Given how he is qualifying the role, do you suspect that he is setting the table for TT to get his foot in the door?
DeleteNo idea. But we'll know soon enough!
DeleteHoyer's big issue is that his ACL tear was on his right leg. Plant leg injuries significantly raise the risk that the QB will not be the same as before.
This is a great analysis of the predicament that Houston, Jacksonville, Cleveland, and other QB-needy teams find themselves in for the draft:
ReplyDeletehttp://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10748680/houston-texans-draft-situation-envy
The article you referenced makes it clear. There is a vacum this year unlike any we have seen. Nobody can really predict where the dust will settle. Its funny to see all these boards shuffling day to day without any football actually being played. In theory this should give a guy like Tebow an opportunity. Though I haven't heard his name mentioned at all as a possibility for any team all offseason. I hope that is by design.
DeleteHere is a table showing the QB's that have been signed this spring.
ReplyDeleteQuarterback Team Age Reported contract
Josh McCown Tampa Bay 34 2 years, $10 million
Matt Cassel Minnesota 31 2 years, $10 million
Chad Henne Jacksonville 28 2 years, $8 million
Michael Vick New York Jets 33 1 year, $4 million
Ryan Fitzpatrick Houston 31 2 years, $7.5 million
Mark Sanchez Philadelphia 27 1 year, $2.25 million
Charlie Whitehurst Tenn 31 2 years, $4 million
Shaun Hill St. Louis 34 1 year, $1.75 million
Kellen Clemens San Diego 30 2 years, $3 million
Derek Anderson Carolina 30 2 years, $2.5 million
Jason Campbell Cincinnati 32 1 year, $1.5 million
Tarvaris Jackson Seattle 30 1 year, $1.25 million
Brandon Weeden Dallas 30 2 years, $1.23 million
Luke McCown New Orleans 32 1 year, $920,000
Dan Orlovsky Detroit 30 1 year, $920,000
Colt McCoy Washington 27 1 year, $795,000
Curtis Painter NYG 28 1 year, $795,000
Add QB trades so far:
Matt Schaub Oakland
Blaine Gabbert San Francisco
RonDog April 11, 2014
ReplyDeleteWow. Truly amazing. If I look at this list, I see 2 guys that deserve the contracts based on their works on the field and talent: McCown & Vick. The rest haven't demonstrated a fraction of what Tebow did in the one season he started with the Broncos. Wins, reason you play the game. Wins! Nothing else. Wins!
The most astute observation I heard when Tebow started winning games in Denver was from a mainstream commentator who said "He is showing us a different way of doing it." Looking back on the experience in NY I still cannot believe he was passed over by the 3rd string QB who had never seen the field before or since. The film sessions & practice may say one thing but the scoreboard does not lie. A Win is a Win is Win.
DeleteIf you go back to that season, you can find glowing comments by many NFL coaches, players, and former players. For a good example, Google what Deion Sanders said: “We’re so focused on what Tim Tebow can’t do that we’re missing what he IS doing.” This recent scorn is revisionism, pure and simple, and it didn't start until after his time at the Jets. In retrospect, it is shocking how destructive that team was to his career and reputation.
DeleteI would disagree w/that somewhat, Ed. I remember in Tim's first 3 NFL starts in 2010, many commentators were pleasantly surprised by what they saw. They went away from the 2010 season predicting good things for Tim. But when the 2011 pre-season talk got started, the same people who were impressed w/Tim just months earlier were suddenly only pointing out his under-50% completion & writing him off because of it. Btw, I'm not suggesting a conspiracy was involved. I think it's just the usual group-think. But I do agree Tim's time w/the Jets was very destructive to NFL guys' perception of Tim.
DeleteI see today that LeSean McCoy has joined the ranks of players that have taken a cheap shot. This sort of thing never ceases to amaze me. Is there a complete and total vacuum of leadership in the NFL on this matter? I recall a player with the Steelers last season remarking in an interview that it was embarrassing to be beaten by someone "as bad as Tebow." And then there was Evan Mathis last year on Twitter mocking Tim's virginity. And then Terelle Pryor saying he didn't want to have a "Tebow-like" regression. And I vaguely recall some 5th tier retired coach throwing him under the bus, too. And the guy on the Jets--who wasn't even on the team during Tim's season--saying how much better it was for the team not to have the distraction of the circus. I could go on and on. And the most bewildering part is that most if not all of these guys have yet to approach Tim's accomplishments, even at the pro level. Is there an adult in the house? This disappoints on so many levels. I look to the League for football, not to watch a bunch of players stroke their egos in an all-male version of "Mean Girls".
Delete1) Very well said.
Delete2) No, there aren't any adults in NFL house anymore.
I know some people here are hoping the A11FL can be a backup plan for Tim, so I thought I'd let you know that this league is looking pretty shaky right now. They posted on social media over 3 weeks ago that some new opportunity had presented itself, so they were 'adjusting their game plan'. And still haven't posted any updates about that new opportunity yet. And the first exhibition game, which was supposed to be 5 weeks from today, has now supposedly been cancelled. I've also had a look at the A11FL site & the blog of one of the guys behind it. They don't exactly look professional, to put it mildly. The A11 offense sounds interesting, but the way this league is being executed seems very amateurish.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I agree, looking awfully shaky.
DeleteSo I guess I was half right about Shanahan. The Browns just signed 2 mobile QBs. They just didn't sign THE mobile QB.
ReplyDeleteAnd they just signed another mobile QB. Gonna be a QB run-happy offense. Sure wish Tim could get a shot at that.
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