So, in case you haven't heard, Tim is going to try his hand at baseball.
Initial thoughts:
1. Love that he still wants to be a pro athlete. Much preferable to being a media fame whore, or a politician (is there a difference?).
2. Baseball is tough. Raw athletic ability is less important than skill, and those skills have to be refined over many years. As a pro scout commented, "NOBODY overcomes 11 years of not playing."
3. If he's going to give up on the QB dream, I wonder why he didn't stick with football and change positions. Maybe to avoid the wear and tear on his body? Or perhaps it would have been embarrassing, so he wanted a clean break.
4. If he was going to switch sports, I'm disappointed he didn't consider rugby for the Olympics. That would have been awesome.
Discuss.
My initial thoughts:
ReplyDeleteThanks for resurrecting this (very) little community. And thanks to Tim for providing a reason. Social media, for the most part, has become a garbage-strewn sea of trolling, fighting, political nonsense, raging vanity and utterly predictable humor. Welcome back to "Ed Island" everybody. I hope all the castaways return.
Point by point:
1. Agreed. I had figured by now he was set to go long-term with ESPN and take whatever other bones ABC/Disney was willing to throw him. It's not that this was a necessarily objectionable pursuit in and of itself, but as an alternative to being a pro athlete, particularly one with his backstory, it was a huge, anticlimactic letdown. Win or lose in this endeavor I'm so impressed that he's trying.
2. Yep. And this is why MiLB provides opportunity for development that the NFL never could offer.
3. I think it's a combination. I think you're right about wanting to avoid wear and tear, but also consider what playing another position would have meant: spending a career watching other guys get opportunity after opportunity to play quarterback, watching a bunch of perennial failures get all the reps that coaches wouldn't give to him. He's already spent four years doing that. Why give a team or the League all of that marketing power in exchange for having to spend the rest of his career wondering what might have happened had someone just let him have an off-season as a starter? I obviously can't read his mind, and he's a better person than I am, but that certainly would have been one of my considerations. (Though I might've tried CFL. I still don't understand that, but whatevs.)
4. That's his next career. Baseball first.
A few quick hits:
ReplyDeleteI am glad he switched sports rather than positions. He had always been successful as a quarterback (doing it in his own unique way) by the only standard that is supposed to matter (winning). Switching positions would have meant selling out to what others wanted him to do. Now he can take his marketing power elsewhere on his own terms.
This bold,exciting,unexpected foray into baseball should be applauded. Hopefully baseball will be more welcoming to him than football was. There is always room in baseball for a left handed batting power hitter (which I believe at minimum he could still do) hopefully he could master the other aspects of the game.
If he does make the big leagues I would love it if he got to play for Joe Maddon. Maddon is the most unorthodox coach I have ever seen in any sport, both on & off the field. He is relaxed with the media, loves to challenge conventional thinking & gets more out of his players than most.
Finally: It's a shame we never got to see Tim's football potential realized, footballs loss is baseball's gain.
Good article: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/08/10/tim-tebow-doesnt-want-sideshow-minors/88531198/
ReplyDeleteNice tweet from Jeff Darlington: https://twitter.com/JeffDarlington/status/762988163459485698
ReplyDeleteThat was a good article: The takeaway for me is:
ReplyDelete1) He is prepared to do what it take provided he feels he is getting a legitimate chance.
2) He could not find a job in a league starving for quarterbacks.
I interpreted this to mean he felt he wasn't getting a fair chance in football including CFL but I digress.
Great listening here: Fox Sports Iheartradio: There is a sports conspiracy against Tebow.
I was thinking the CFL was possibly being cagey with him as well. As in, the same empty promises and language he heard from the NFL. I wouldn't be surprised.
ReplyDeleteI do wish T would defend himself from time to time. His approach to focus on what he can control is laudable, but sometimes I think he misses the fact that he can influence media talking points with a few remarks. For years now it's been nothing but knee-jerk dismissive and negative analysis from the peanut gallery with next to no rhetorical push back. Something as simple as, "I appreciate that the analysts who have been talking about me on their programs for four days straight are weary of my publicity and attention hounding. Perhaps tomorrow they'll find another topic of discussion to occupy their airtime," would force the media to address that they're half (or more) of the problem. I know it will never happen; it's just frustrating watching this cottage industry of talking heads profiting off of crapping on the guy no matter what.
ReplyDeletePull the plug on the media coverage. You'll be much happier. I am. An army of desperate reporters will make sure we don't miss anything of note.
DeleteHeard someone explain Tim's rationale for not changing positions. He loves playing QB. He loves playing baseball. He does not love playing tight end or linebacker. So he is going to do what he loves. Works for me.
Still troubled by his unwillingness to give the CFL a shot. I think he just concluded that there was very little likelihood of a path back to the NFL, regardless of how well he played, and he just wasn't willing to toil in obscurity in a 2nd tier league in another country for the rest of his sports career.
Fair enough. But even if I ignore the noise the "circus" will still be there. Knowing that NFL coaches and starters are a bunch of snowflakes when it comes to handling media circusry I can only worry if the same applies to MLB.
DeleteI've pulled the plug on media coverage as much as possible...Still I agree these narratives have been allowed to fester unanswered, growing out of control for far too long, causing irreparable damage to his reputation.
DeleteIMO he is too passive in not confronting some of these critics. When a bad call is made on the field he shows tremendous leadership in addressing it. I saw him get angry in Denver when an obvious face mask penalty was not called & he let the referee know about it in a strong forceful way. I would like to see him exercise this same leadership in addressing the criticisms. Otherwise he runs the risk of teams using the "circus" as an excuse.
If you find comments from MLB players, former or current, that have seen T hit, please post them - good or bad. I'll start:
ReplyDelete"Just Saw #Tebow Hit. Was surprised. He will be signed. Foundation is there need to C in game adjustments in minor league games. #MLB"
"he'll get signed Can't say if he'll ever play in big leagues or not but he has tools. Gotta prove he can hit Pro Ball. We'll see"
"Looks like a baseball player swinging the bat. Can't say if he'll be #MLB player or not. That's what Minors are for. Has tools"
All from Jerry Hairston (fmr Dodgers) Twitter (https://twitter.com/TheRealJHair?lang=en) - saw T today in Scottsdale.
According to the Boston Herald the Red Sox are sending reps to T's workout later this month and, in fact, most teams are expected to according to baseball sources.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/2016/08/red_sox_notebook_david_ortiz_joins_team_s_1000_extra_base_hit_club
Curt Schilling had some commentary...He doesn't think Tim will play in the majors.
DeleteWe'll see. Only an extended period of time hitting against live pitching will give the definitive answer.
So apparently Tim's buddy Brendan Schaub revealed on his podcast that Tim has actually been secretly training to play baseball for a couple of years now, and was actually training for baseball when he got the call to report to the Eagles training camp. If this is true (and there's no particular reason to doubt it) then the fact that he all but abandoned football training after Chip dumped him suddenly makes a whole lot of sense.
ReplyDeleteJose Canseco: "“I saw his swing on YouTube let me tell you: He’s strong and he’s got a very powerful swing. Good technique, so I would definitely love to see him out here, get some at-bats, and I’d love to work with him.”
ReplyDeletehttp://www.complex.com/sports/2016/08/jose-canseco-tim-tebow-new-bash-brothers?utm_campaign=complexmag&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
The preseason has barely begun, already we have seen several quarterbacks be injured....The Merry Go Round Continues...It's laudable that Tim is trying to play baseball, it's laughable that he is not on a football team. I cannot watch football anymore with the same enthusiasm I have always had. I now get my pleasure from the schadenfreude some teams continue to give.
ReplyDeleteI won't even watch the NFL this year. Well, might watch the playoffs if the Pats get in, just because I respect consistent excellence. But, on Shadenfreude front, can't help but notice that Chip is on his way to another dumpster fire. Just reminds me of how disappointing Tim's time with the Eagles was. I really can't blame anyone else in Tim's career, but Chip flat-out screwed him. Will take some small measure in watching him fail in his second try as a head coach and wash out of the NFL.
DeleteGreat article with lots of honest analysis and helpful critique from David Aardsma, who threw for Tebow this week. He's got some videos in there too so you can see what he's talking about. Here's his bottom line:
ReplyDelete"In my opinion, having seen Tebow up close and personal, he isn’t far off from being extremely competitive at a high level. Without a doubt, he is very raw and definitely needs to play games and face pitchers. If I were planning Tim’s future, I would try to get him into rookie ball as soon as possible, then instructional league, and then send him to Mexico or the Dominican Republic to face some real pitching before having him ready for spring training"
But read the rest for yourself, as he gets into Tim's baseball IQ and technique. As an aside it's great to know there are players out there willing to jump in, see for themselves, and offer their comments and advice rather than dismiss him with contempt right off the bat. No pun intended.
http://www.baseballessential.com/news/2016/08/19/facing-tim-tebow/
Nice remarks from Ryan Zimmerman. You don't have to adopt pie-in-the-sky predictions in order to be supportive. https://twitter.com/dcsportsbog/status/768150122945544194
ReplyDeleteIt looks like tomorrows workout is going to be attended by most mlb teams with their primary decision makers being present. This is the furthest thing from a stunt. It's worth mentioning that there are no hysterics & no circus involved. Just a guy trying to make it. (ala the natural). Most teams probably have a good idea what to expect already. If he impresses tomorrow there is a good chance he will get signed right away.
ReplyDeleteIf he gets a fair shake he will make it. I wouldn't bet against it.
He performed as well as could be expected today. He will surely be offered a contract. The response from MLB has been very encouraging very positive, what a contrast to what he have been used to. So refreshing. Tim does not have to be a .300 hitter to make it to the major leagues. With his power if he could get his timing down to level that makes him a home run threat every time he steps to the plate I believe he has a good chance to make it to the majors.
DeleteEveryone seems to have gone silent recently. Here are a few quick thoughts from recent developments.
ReplyDelete1) I really like the way Tim handled himself with Skip Bayless right after his baseball workout. While it stunk to hear him say his quarterbacking days are over he defended his accomplishments in Denver in a way I had not heard before.
2) He wished he had been given another opportunity on the field to show what he could do. I took that to mean he knows he got a raw deal even though he is at peace with it.
3) If reports are to be believed several MLB teams are interested in signing him. Is there a possibility of hearing about a signing before the new football season begins?
Are you guys still around? :)
ReplyDeleteGreat news today with this Mets signing. The supportive comments from the Mets organization has been fantastic. They definitely want to make this work. What a coincidence that this announcement was made the same day football starts. ;)
I hope you all start commenting again it's no fun talking to myself. :)
No offense intended; it's been busy 'round these parts so I haven't had a chance to give much thought to all of this. My initial reaction is that I'm happy for him. I hope this works out to his satisfaction; and that his fans will have the opportunity to watch him play for a few years at least.
DeleteI'm a little concerned about the moonlighting aspect of keeping his weekend job with SEC Nation; and not because he's taking a couple days off on the weekend during instructionals. That amounts to about ten two-hour workouts essentially; not much, especially for someone with the drive and resources to make that up several-fold in one-on-one instruction, etc. I'm also not worried about the commitment aspect. This is the last year on his SEC Network contract. Just conjecture, but he'd probably like to fulfill the contract this fall so that he can fully focus on baseball moving forward, without having that obligation hanging out there. Taken that way it reaffirms his commitment to baseball.
What bothers me about it is that he appears to have cut a deal with the Mets because they were the only team willing to let him do that, which suggests that the Mets, irrespective of their statements to the contrary, are in this more for the publicity than for the player. I guess only time will tell. The outcome is 90% on Tim at any rate; and his earnestness I believe in, so all in all I look forward to watching things unfold this fall and beyond.
All that said, he seems content to occupy whatever role the club finds for him. That flexibility and deference is good, of course, but I don't know that as an outfielder it will be possible for him to electrify baseball the way he did football. Is that disappointing? I don't know yet. Maybe this chapter isn't about spectacle and glory so much as it's about persisting and achieving in ways we didn't expect when we were younger.
My two cents.
Unfortunately the NFL experience left me too exhausted to give this much serious analysis, so here are just some random casual thoughts and a story:
Delete1. I think he's doing it for the only right reason, which is a genuine love for the game. I played baseball and I get that. Other sports are more exciting, but there's something about the feeling of playing ball that can't be described unless you have experienced it. We're talking "Field of Dreams" stuff.
2. Most guys who ever played baseball at any level would give their left testicle just to play one season of single A ball. He gets to do it. Good on him.
2. I'm still disappointed he didn't give football one more go, perhaps in the CFL. But now I think we may understand why. It could could be his heart just wasn't in it anymore.
3. Try not to get too excited about the power. Means nothing if you can't connect. Batting practice is a weightlifting contest. If it meant anything, Arnold Schwarzenegger would be an MLB player. Consider my own personal story as a very weak warning.
I played little league ball until I was 13. I was too small and unathletic to play high school ball at that point, and there weren't any other options. So I stopped playing and tried some other sports. Was never very good at anything, except it turned out for walking a long way and enduring under bad conditions, hence my profession. But I grew and caught up to my peers by my senior year.
In the spring of my senior year, after HS season had ended, I was goofing around with some friends playing pickup ball on the HS field. I was taking batting practice and crushing the ball. I always had a strong swing. I was putting most of my shots on the warning track and sometimes beyond.
The HS coach approached me, complimented me on how hard I hit the ball, and asked me why I didn't play for the school. I didn't really have an answer other than the truth, which is I didn't think I was good enough. He invited me to play on the mens American Legion team that he coached. It was all guys from the HS team, plus a few from other schools. I jumped at the chance.
I played every other night that summer. I had a blast. Loved every minute of it. Except for one thing.
Turns out hitting a ball thrown by someone trying to trick you is way harder than clubbing 80% throws during batting practice.
I had one hit all season. One. Out of probably at least 100 at bats. Yes, my batting average was .01. I still regularly crushed the ball during batting practice. But I maybe made solid contact 2 or 3 times the whole season. Most of the time I couldn't even touch the ball.
So this is awesome, and I'm excited like everyone else. But don't get all worked up over a 6'3" 255lb man hitting the ball a long way in batting practice. If that was all that mattered, the league would be full of 255lb men.
4. Lastly, on a positive note, it really is amazing how the guy consistently finds a way to use his life as an example of how to live. His comments after his pro day were vintage Tebow. Love the guy, always will. And you bet I'll be making the drive over to Port St Lucie if he plays single A ball next spring.
I'm encouraged that other baseball players that have worked with him see something there. Moeller, Aardsma, Sheffield. If it were his agents emphasizing his power and speed I'd be more incredulous, but these are guys that have watched him - one having thrown trick shots to him in the low 90's - and realized he's got tools, albeit rusty, but legitimate. The ability to connect seems to be baked into the pie if these guys say yeah there's a shot. That said I understand the caution. The moment of truth isn't that far off. And it is a long shot even under ideal circumstances.
DeleteTMZ is so skeevy, but Chad Moeller talked to them today and had some really interesting comments:
ReplyDelete-Tim had offers from numerous teams, not just one or two; and some were made even before his workout.
-The odds are in his favor to eventually make the majors, which he concedes is saying a lot considering how tough it's going to be
-Tim is a better athlete than most MLB players. His power is at an elite category; and other players at that level don't run a 6.6 60.
Watch for yourself: http://www.tmz.com/2016/09/09/tim-tebow-chad-moeller-multiple-offers-mets/
There is an old saying in baseball that say's "Home run hitters drive Cadillacs, Singles hitters drive Ford's".
DeleteHome run or Power hitters are in greater demand than singles hitters. They change the complexion of games. Pitchers have to be very careful how they pitch to them because the whole game can change with one swing of the bat.
I believe this dynamic works to Tim's advantage. His challenge will be to get his consistency to a level where his power becomes a legitimate threat every time he steps to the plate.
The Mets & MLB clearly want to make this work. Among others one of my favorite quotes from Sandy Alderson (who is not known as a guy who does things just for gimmicks) said about Tim. "It's a chance to associate with greatness".
It's great after what Tim & his supporters have had to deal with that he is being recognized for his positive attributes. I wish Football had done the same.
Personally speaking I am glad he never went to CFL or changed positions for that matter. If rewiring his body & taking a previously 4 & 17 team to a playoff win then being denied a roster spot he had clearly earned was not deserving of a second chance then I doubt anything he did in Canada would have made a bit of difference. Yes his heart probably was not in it nor should it have been. Besides the football world was so sour on him I am not even sure CFL was all that welcoming to him. (Talk about an indignity).
DeleteThats all in the rearview mirror now. Baseball has provided a chance for a new beginning. They accept him the person as well as the athlete. Something football never did.
Since we are giving personal stories I will offer one as well..I played college baseball some of my teammates were drafted in the MLB draft. In fact one of my friends on the team was also the quarterback of our football team. We would travel to Florida every spring. The biggest difference as you advance up the ladder in baseball is the speed at which the ball moves around the field & the strength of the throwing arms. I understand the challenges Tim will face as he tries to work his way up. Certainly power alone means nothing if you can not connect. What encourages me is the contact he did make with the live pitching. I believe he only swung & missed on one pitch. He was also working the count & hitting the ball where it was pitched. All good signs. Hopefully he can get the timing down & has enough reflex/hand eye coordination to become a good hitter. Only time will tell.
I understand his refusal to try other positions. He won as a quarterback and had earned at least the moral right to try again following a sincere attempt to develop him with full training camp reps as a starter. If he fell on his face after that I think he could've potentially understood that it wasn't meant to be and embraced a position change. But to expect him to switch positions without that opportunity, to sit on the bench and watch other quarterbacks struggle, knowing he could do outperform them - with his fans knowing he could outperform them - I get why he wouldn't want to spend a career like that.
DeleteThe refusal to try CFL, on the other hand, still befuddles me. The only reason that seems logical to me is that he and his team, based on what happened in the NFL, and based on the language coming from his CFL suitors, led him to conclude that he would ultimately face the same barriers up north and that it would not lead him back to the NFL. Or, as Ed suggested to me, perhaps the appeal of baseball was already complicating his decisions. Time may shed some light on the question, but who knows?
Bob, you are officially designated as the technical expert for Tim's baseball career.
DeleteMe, I'm headed to practice.
Thanks Ed: Will do my best.
DeleteWe're expecting a full report, Ed. :D
DeleteNice little Sunday column:
ReplyDeletehttp://m.dcourier.com/news/2016/sep/11/column-tim-tebow-signed-new-york-mets-so-whats-all/?templates=mobile
Some interesting comments from Tim:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/09/15/tim-tebow-isnt-worried-about-the-inglorious-life-of-the-minor-leagues/?tid=twisira
I just read the introduction plus the first chapter of Tim's new book Shaken. It's a must read. It is more raw, more real than anything I have ever read about him before. I am really looking forward to reading the rest of the book.
ReplyDeleteIf you want a quick peek: waterbrookmultnomah.com/.../2.../09/SHAKEN-Sneak-Peak.pdf
I purposely didn't offer any opinion about what I read. Maybe once we have all read it we can discuss.
I read it yesterday and had the same reaction. It really made me emotional, maybe because in a way we were along for the ride. One of the most revealing and frankly informing things to me was the anecdote about Belichick and the endorsement deal. I get that it's all just business but it just encapsulates how little he got for how much he gave throughout his NFL experience. I'm glad he moved on. I'm glad he's at peace with it all and enjoying baseball. Good for him.
DeleteHow about the reference to his dismissal from Denver as a "betrayal of sorts". That is brutal honesty like we have never heard before. It will be interesting to see what he has to say about his Jets & Eagles experience.
DeleteOne of the things I wish he had done as a player is defend his record. Instead he let the haters and the opportunists (Bayless et al) fight it out, with the former in the process managing to rewrite history. The guy, for all his faults, was the key playmaker that sparked Denver's first playoff run in six years, and yet the rewritten narrative holds that the rest of the team won in spite of him. He holds playoff game passing records, yet the rewritten narrative holds that he's irredeemable as a passer. He gave up a million f*&^%# dollars to keep his profile down and make life for his coach more comfortable, yet the rewritten narrative holds that he's a publicity whore and--as Mike Lombardi decided it was necessary to announce on Skip's new program this week--a selfish player. You've got to be kidding me.
DeleteI'm tired of the vultures. I'm tired of everyone else's negative opinion of him. I could care less what a failed GM thinks of him. I could care less what a bunch of bitter, single-A minor league players think of him. Draw millions in publicity and merchandise sales to your club, put up with the histrionic shit that he's dealt with for ten years and then come crying about paycheck disparity. I could give a rat's ass what the chattering class thinks of his prospects, or of his intentions. Every single one of them financially and professionally profits off of talking about him - not one of them has any moral authority whatsoever to pass judgment - against him or against the Mets. Tired of hearing about him? Change the channel. Tired of talking about him? Then STFU. Simple.
I'm glad Tim is being so candid. Judging from the first chapter the process of writing this book looks like an act of catharsis. I suspect it will be, too, for the reader. And the best part is he's staying true to character: honest, but respectful. It's not a hit piece. I'm looking forward to the rest.
I agree with everything you said. Those Lombardi comments were just amazing. The criteria these guys use to justify their positions are ridiculous. How often have we heard them say "it's not sustainable" or "you can't win a championship that way". 31 teams every year do not win a championship.
DeleteMost of these teams would do anything (except of course make Tim their quarterback) to have a season like he had in Denver.
Jon Gruden made an interesting comment recently where he said he thinks he could bring Tebow back to the league put him in the offense he ran at Florida & win games. He also said he thinks he could play. Hopefully he makes it to the big leagues & has a successful career there but wouldn't that be something to witness.
I keep thinking about Lombardi's comments. After the Browns booted his ass the Pats picked him up as an assistant of some sort - charity hire, IMO. It's hard not to conclude, logically, that his opinion of Tim was largely informed in Foxborough, which is a great disappointment, if true.
DeleteI've come over the years to realize that the men running these organizations are really nothing more than a bunch of bitches and divas. Some are on the surface. The rest are behind the scenes. Even worse.
I got conflicting ideas about what happened to Tim in New England based on how he describes it in the book. Maybe I will revisit this theme when the book comes out.
DeleteAs far as baseball I read somewhere that after practice this week Tim along with a few others would stay later to work on some things. What I thought was really interesting instead of staying for extra batting or fielding practice he was working on bunting. Bunting is a specialized skill that alot of players even at the big league level never master. This may mean he is trying to learn to be a complete player, not just a slugger. Most RBI & HR guys are never called on to bunt.
If he is able to become a hitter who just tries to make solid contact with the ball the HR's will come on their own. Baseball is the kind of game in which we will need to see a large sample size of at least 1 year preferably 2 before we can begin to form opinions on how good he will be.
Baby steps: http://www.tcpalm.com/story/sports/mlb/spring-training/2016/09/22/tebows-swing-starting-pop/90840120/
ReplyDelete"Even if he is released" had never rung more hollow than it did today. Imagine instead if we had heard "yes he just wins" what the last 3 years might have looked like.
ReplyDeleteSwallow your bitterness, said the old Chinese lady in The Joy Luck Club. But seriously, this baseball thing is clearly T's way of finding closure through a happy pursuit. Take his lead and occupy your thoughts on what lies ahead.
DeleteWith that said, here's some film to study :-D
https://twitter.com/PatBernadeau/status/780427482092728320
Thanks for that :). He looks fluid in the batting cage. His swing does not look unnatural or forced in any way. We'll see over time whether it translates to live pitching. He reminds me a little bit of Reggie Jackson who had the greatest nickname (Mr. October).
DeleteIt didn't translate to live pitching today. Struck out twice. But we can't draw conclusions now - good or bad - which is why this relatively protracted experiment is probably going to drive me bonkers.
DeleteIf it ever translates to live pitching, it is only going to be after a lot of practice. Best settle in.
DeleteSettled. Settled. Duly settled.
DeleteBetter day today. Couple of singles and a diving catch. More baby steps. All we can ask for. At least in this context the clock isn't ticking the way it did during training camp in the NFL.
https://twitter.com/LFTorresIII/status/780825426079932416
DeleteGlad to see he got some good wood on the ball today. Notice where they put him in the batting order the last two days. Batting 3rd, then second. These are prime spots in the lineup. The 3rd hitter in the lineup is usually a teams best hitter. It might not have alot of significance this early on but I think they are showing him alot of respect by hitting him there.
DeleteInteresting. Thanks, I didn't know that. Very nice of them. These updates are fun, for whatever they're worth, but I wish they would tell us a little more about the rest of the team.
DeleteI am silly happy for him. Looks like he's having a great time. He deserves it :)
Deletehttp://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17660738&ex_cid=espntw
Ok, so that's just about the most awesome headline ever. Laughed out loud when I saw it.
DeleteThe sports world is abuzz. No one can say this is a publicity stunt now.
ReplyDeleteIts only one at bat but it's so Tebow. Rising to the occasion.
Points to consider about Tebows hitting thus far.
1) The HR was hit off of a left handed pitcher. Not an ideal matchup for a left handed hitter.
2) One of his hits yesterday & the HR today were both hit to the opposite field.
You're so right about that being so Tebow. That's one of the most appealing aspects to the guy, and was really the reason it was so fun watching him in the last 5 minutes of a game. Seems like the higher the stress level, the better he performs. Appears that dynamic transcends the specific sport.
DeleteI always thought opposite-handed pitchers were a tougher matchup, which is why left handed pitchers were so valued?
Left handed pitchers are more valued because there are so many fewer of them in comparison to left handed hitters. They are a tougher matchup for left handed hitters because they (generally speaking) release the ball from behind the line of sight from the left handed batter giving him less time to view the ball & a tougher angle to hit it from. From a right handed pitcher the lefty batter gets a longer clearer incoming view of the ball.
DeleteOne more thing about Tim's hitting. Most of his at bats right now are definetely going to the opposite field. Eventually as he gets more AB's his timing will improve, his hands will get quicker allowing him to pull the ball. Of course pitchers will continuously keep making adjustments finding different ways to pitch him, looking for weaknesses they can exploit. I think for now it's very good that he is putting the ball in play by making contact. And as we saw today sometimes solid contact.
More info here, with some thoughts and self-analysis from T: http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/17661000/tim-tebow-hits-home-run-first-pitch-first-instructional-league-game-new-york-mets
DeleteHow does pulling the ball give a player an advantage? Less predictable to the defense?
DeletePower.
DeleteHeh. TBL's Jason McIntyre pointed this out today: Took Michael Jordan 354 at-bats to hit his 1st HR. Took Tim Tebow 1 at-bat to hit his 1st.
DeleteToday's stats: https://twitter.com/AnthonyDiComo/status/781578774781501440
DeleteJordan was fighting against physics. He is 6'6" and has a 6'9" wingspan. The two tallest position players in the MLB are also 6'6". Takes a while to get those long arms around.
DeleteIMO the only stat that matters right now is lack of strikeouts. If he's putting wood on the ball, the hits will come.
The homerun reminded me of a great childhood memory. When I was a boy growing up in Atlanta, I was a big Braves fan. Back then baseball was the most popular professional sport.
One year the Braves drafted Bob Horner. He was supposedly the first MLB player ever to bypass the minors and go straight from college to the big league. The hype was off the charts.
I went to his first game. On his third at-bat, he hit a home run. The place went nuts!
"Thursday's game was another semi-simulated affair with Tebow hitting third in each of the first five innings, no matter where the Mets were in the lineup."
Deletehttp://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/tim-tebow-hitting-fans-continue-flock-mets-park-article-1.2812120?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NydnRss+%28Top+Stories+-+NY+Daily+News%29
They are throwing mostly fastballs & changeups. No curves or sliders. Nevertheless Tim could not have gotten off to a better start.
DeleteEven the Mets manager weighed in with some very supportive comments about what Tim is doing. For a big league manager in the middle of a pennant race to take the time to talk about what is happening in the instructional league is probably unprecedented. It seems like right from the very start the whole organization has wanted to make this happen. And its great that thus far Tim is performing the way he is.
After the games next week we will know alot more about what their intentions are based on where they assign him.
P.S. Johnny Bench also had some very nice things to say today.
The latest...
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/anthonydicomo/status/783054267171106816
The Arizona fall league is one heck of an opportunity for Tim. Its a huge jump from the instructional league. It shows the Mets confidence in him & his confidence in himself to try this at such an early stage.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure what to expect. It will be interesting to see how it goes. If he performs well great. If he under performs there will be no need to end this experiment.
Most ball players struggle at some point, slumps are as much a part of the game as hot dogs & apple pie.
The latest...
ReplyDeletehttp://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/10/11/tebow-works-out-for-first-time-in-arizona-fall-league/
"Tim Tebow's first at bat lasts eight pitches. He grounded a 3-2 pitch to second base, moving a runner over. Didn't look overmatched by a pitcher who spent this season in Triple A."
DeleteBob Holtzman, ESPN
https://twitter.com/BobHoltzmanESPN/status/785936526303559680
https://twitter.com/AdamRubinESPN/status/785937109710360576
He continued to make contact in his 2nd game, reached base twice, and got an RBI. IMO if he is facing triple-A pitching and not whiffing on 3 straight pitches, that is borderline amazing.
DeleteBob, 2 questions for you:
1. I noticed a lot of Tim's grounders were to 2nd base. Is he pulling the ball, or getting out ahead on off-speed pitches?
2. Saw some video of batting practice today. The coach was throwing from about 1/3 of the way from home plate to the mound. Is that to mimic the short reaction time of faster pitches?
It is totally amazing. He has exceeded my expectations. I really thought he might struggle initially to make contact. I am equally impressed by the way he is running the bases & playing defense. It seems like he is working on being an all around player not just a slugging power hitter.
ReplyDeleteI also noticed he is pulling the ball a bit more now.
With respect to question 1: If the grounders to 2nd base were sharply hit fastballs or breaking pitches on the inside part of the plate he is pulling the ball. If they were slow rollers to 2nd it could mean he is trying to pull outside pitches instead of going the other way with them.
On question #2: Sometimes they pitch from a closer distance as a drill to try to increase bat speed. For batting practice they do it because the pitcher can throw more strikes & more pitches from the shorter distance.
Hope this helps.
Appreciate this, Bob. Sadly, we can't get this kind of analysis from the press. When they're not exploiting the seizure incident for low-hanging clicks they're painting his first two days as a bust based on a superficial glance at stats. I miss the days when sports reporters weren't entertainment reporters.
DeleteGreat insight, thanks!
DeleteKathryn, don't sweat the idiot reporters. Baseball is a long term activity, and folks know not to draw conclusions from small sample sizes. Heck, the World Series is 7 games, because it would be ridiculous to name a champion based on one game. Might as well be soccer.
For a guy who last played baseball 10 years ago in HIGH SCHOOL to face Triple A pitching in his 3rd game and not look foolish is incredible. I'm starting to come around on this thing!
Interestingly, the same quality that made Tebow so great in the 4th quarter (calm under pressure) may be a huge asset at the plate.
So for a brief Shadenfreude interlude ... got a three-fer this week. Chip Kelly and the 49'ers are 1-5 now, turns out Gabbert is lousy regardless of the team he is on, AND C-Kap lost his first game.
ReplyDeleteTo be clear, I don't wish Gabbert any ill will. I'm sure he's a perfectly nice fellow, and he's a far better athlete than I ever was. But it always pissed me off to see the Jaguars insist that he was a better option than Tebow, despite all objective evidence being to the contrary.
As for Kap, for a long time I was a fan, but never again. He has every right to express himself. Free speech is free speech. And I actually agree (somewhat) with the point he is trying to make. But he's a f*@%!#g moron for the way he chose to make it. That flag represents the ideal and principles of America, and a lot of people have died to bring the reality closer to the ideal.
As for Chip, at this rate we'll be seeing him back in college in a year or two. I don't resent all the coaches who cut Tim, just the ones who were shitty about it. BB is perhaps the best coach in NFL history, so if he says Tim wasn't a good fit, then he's got the creds to say that. John Fox has always been complimentary of Tim, and I think he pretty much got rolled by Elway. Rex is a blowhard who screwed up, but I'll give him some small credit for sticking with HIS franchise QB. If he still believed in Sanchez, then trying to get through the year without totally burning him could be viewed as loyalty, albeit misplaced in hindsight.
But Chip, that guy has no excuses. Tim earned a spot, Chip dismissed him, and proceeded to implode and get fired.
Tim's book comes out in a few days, if the first chapter was any indication we will get a behind the scenes unvarnished look at what actually happened in his NFL experience. Belicheck certainly does have the creds to tell Tim it was not a good fit. He gave Tim a chance when no one else would. There may even be an actual compliment in saying he was not a good fit. It does not mean he may not have been a good fit somewhere else. Judging from what Tim said though it seems like he was expecting a little more.
DeleteFor alot of football fans the games are a way to forget about their daily challenges without being reminded of controversies. Free speech is a beautiful thing. Kap's point may have some validity but not enough to justify his actions. If I were his employer I would have to ask him to protest on his own time.
I still don't understand why Fox or Gase did not give Tim an opportunity on their new teams. Although I don't hold that against them.
I put Chip & Rex in the same category. I think at best they both mislead Tim at worst they flat out lied to him. Rex leapfrogged Tim in favor of Greg Mcelroy after Tim swallowed his pride by playing punt protector for him while he waited for the opportunity he was promised. Chip told us Tim wasn't good enough maybe the one who wasn't good enough was Chip. I'll bet if Tim's Gators ever played Chip's Ducks Tim would have rolled them.
Tim has left this sordid episode behind & I am sure it was very painful for him. Now onto the happier pursuit of baseball.
Well it was good to see Tim pick up his first hit today. A rope to the opposite field. Hopefully it will keep his detractors at bay for at least another day or two ;). As Tim gets more game experience he will learn what kind of hitter he is going to be. He will figure out which pitches he can handle, he will learn how to hit situationally.
There are differing approaches to hitting, some of the greatest hitters in history had totally different hitting styles, yet they were incredibly successful.
A couple of quick examples.
Ted Williams maybe the greatest hitter ever was strictly a pull hitter who used a light bat & had incredible plate discipline refusing to swing at even the closest of pitches.
Roberto Clemente on the other hand used a very heavy bat & was primarily an opposite field hitter who used to swing at all kinds of pitches whether they were strikes or not.
Yet both are in the hall of fame.
I used to play with a guy who for reasons still unbeknownst to me used to love to hit with two strikes. Two strike hitting puts the hitter at a severe disadvantage but it worked for him, maybe it made him concentrate more.
Bob, one of the most unexpected delights to come out of Tim's switch to baseball is watching the process from your perspective. Who knew all this time we had a baseball expert on deck? Needless to say, your insight and enthusiasm have been encouraging, as has been the incremental progress we've seen this week.
DeleteThanks Kathryn, That's very nice of you to say.
DeleteAnd it's a streak. A little one. I'll take it.
Deletehttps://twitter.com/billazbbphotog/status/788937926352658433
Let's take Tebow out of the headline and see how the story reads:
Delete"Guy who played baseball in high school 10 years ago tries out for pros, gets base hit against top minor league pitching prospect in 5th game."
If that was just Some Guy, people would be amazed.
Shadenfreude watch: 49'ers lost again, now 1-6. At this rate Chip might not make it to the end of the season.
DeleteA couple of quick hits:
ReplyDelete1) How about that Thu. night Jags game, unbelievable. Their franchise QB is playing baseball. ;) Will there be any changes made after this season?
2) I saw 3 of Tim's AB's last night. Tim has alot of work to do. He was turning his head off the ball & was fooled on alot of pitches. That's understandable though. He will need to work this winter on adjusting his muscle memory to playing baseball.
3) I read the first four chapters of his new book. So far what surprised me the most is that he was more hurt by being cut from the Pats than he was from the Eagles. I would have thought the opposite.
As a nice distraction from this debacle of an election, take a look at the game log for tonight. Tim's at-bats:
DeleteSafe on throwing error by pitcher (bunt?)
Line out to LF
Ground out to 3B
Walk
Single to RF
No strikeouts. Making contact every AB. That's progress.
Yes, slow and steady progress. Can't ask for anything more. Looks like they're trying to give him as many reps as possible.
DeleteAnd a nice start to today's game: https://twitter.com/Krafty_3/status/796492746911428608
DeleteNice extra base hit today. It's only a matter of time before we see a home run. He is developing into a hitter that will be able to hit to all fields. That's great it's much tougher to defend those kinds of hitters.
DeleteNice little write-up: https://risingapple.com/2016/11/15/mets-prospect-tim-tebow-finds-new-groove-in-afl/
DeleteHere is a bit of something fun you all would like to hear. A friend of mine was at one of Tim's game's in Arizona about a week ago. They had a day game that day. My friend saw Tim as he was getting to the ballpark & asked Tim to autograph a bat & ball for him. He said it is unusual for Tim to sign before games so he was very thankful for the opportunity (maybe a little lucky too). He said Tim was super friendly.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.metro.us/new-york/tebow-s-trainer-weighs-in-on-former-qb-s-progress-on-baseball-diamond/zsJqbl---xoGSRWw2GMTaw/
ReplyDeleteHello Friends:
ReplyDeleteSpring has sprung, so hopefully we can get a new dialogue started. Hopefully with better results than we experienced with football. Check out this video from Tim's first day at practice. www.usatodaysports.com Tebow impresses in batting practice.
I know it's only batting practice & there is a long season of at bats (with struggles) ahead but to me his body movements looked much more fluid than they did from just last fall.
I think unless he is a total bust at the plate or the media attention overwhelms he is going to make it. (I don't think he will be a bust at the plate). Time & patience are in order here.
This story is going to have a happy ending. Tim & his fans deserve it.
Haven't been on in a while. I created an open thread for discussion for those of us following his time on the Class A Columbia Fireflies.
ReplyDelete