Training, competition, nutrition, recovery, injuries, psychology, and other topics relevant to competing with younger athletes. Also Tim Tebow articles. Formerly the "Over Forty Athlete" blog.
Friday, December 4, 2015
Game Changer
Dunno if there is anything to this rumor. If there is, can you say "Vitamin Tebow"?
No wonder Tim believes in miracles. This does change the calculus, I have no problem admitting that. It's the one and only scenario that could possibly, theoretically have some plausibility; and obviously one that I certainly failed to consider. Who knew Urban was even entertaining the NFL anyway? Or that he'd been on the Browns radar for so long? That said I would plea to be mindful that there are obstacles. Urban may decide to stay at Ohio State. Haslam and/or Farmer may consider Tim a deal killer. Urban may think not having Tim is a deal killer, but he also might not. The Browns might want him to try to get something out of their investment in Manziel, instead. And Tim would be gracious about that.
But back to the positive... Urban has said as recently as this season that if he were a coach in the NFL he would sign Tebow in a heartbeat (or something along those enthusiastic lines). The Front Office in Cleveland must certainly know that. They also know that Urban's not an NFL coach. Installing his offense would require adjustments up and down the roster, not just at quarterback.
If they're serious about this then it's not just about signing a new head coach. It's about blowing the shit out of everything and starting over again.
If Cleveland signs Urban Meyer they're going nuclear, my friends.
I had heard of this rumor for several months floating around, I never gave it much credence thinking it was just wishful thinking from Tim's supporters.
This story seems to have merit so since we are at it I have also heard Miami is also interested in Urban. If nothing else it would give him some negotiating leverage should he want it. Although with this contract being unprecendented as it is he probably won't need that leverage.
Urban & Tim together in the pros would be a marketers dream. I sure hope the deal goes through so Tim will get his rightful opportunity to play (hopefully start) & to irritate all the naysayers we have had to listen to for the last few years ;).
We all realize this is total rumor and entirely unconfirmed. With that disclaimer out of the way, it does pass the giggle test, for a couple of reasons:
1. Haslam seems like the kind of guy who is not afraid of a big, bold move. As Kathryn observes, this wouldbe as bold as they get.
2. Meyer is a son of Ohio. Born, raised, and played HS and college football there. Having salvaged the historically great Ohio State program, I doubt he could resist the lure of restoring the Browns.
I don't think Urban would necessarily go all in with Tim as the starter. However, I absolutely think he would give him a fair shot to make the roster as the backup. There is a strong pattern of NFL coaches picking backup QBs who they know and are comfortable with, and there are good reasons for that. The backup gets very few practice reps, and the coach has to trust his diligence and work ethic to always be focused and prepared to come in with no notice.
Urban is the leading practitioner of the spread offense, and would almost certainly implement some version of it. He'll need a mobile QB to do that, and since mobile QBs get hurt in the NFL he'll need several. I could see him drafting Cardale Jones, keeping Johnny F, and signing Tim, and letting the pecking order sort itself out in the preseason.
Fun to think about. Let's all cross our fingers that there is something to it. With luck, Haslam leaked it to see if Urban rules it out. Silence on both sides would speak volumes.
I totally agree with your comments about the quarterback pecking order. Tim should expect to get a fair shot to make the roster & not necessarily walk straight into the starters job although he could possibly earn it in the preseason.
The only thing I would add is if Tim is not the starter initially I think Urban would would try to find ways to get him on the field. Jones,Manziel,&Tebow would be a great mix of athleticism.
I can see that being a possibility with a bit of a more expanded role in the base offense at times to try & create mismatches & constantly give defenses different looks. 2 pointt conversions also.
In other news my prediction that the Pats would murder Philly this weekend pretty much just blew up. SMH New England. Can't count on nuthin' and no one in this game...boooo!
As an aside, I just want to say that I have never stopped agreeing with all of you that it's a disgrace and an abomination that dudes like Jimmy Clausen keep getting opportunities where Tim is shut out...as we have just witnessed this afternoon...ahem, again... It's just that I don't see any more scenarios where these coaches and teams would concede as much (Insert Urban Meyer Desperate Fantasy Caveat Here: which incidentally I plan on riding until the Browns hire a new coach not named Urban Meyer).
In other, other news I just finished decorating my office Christmas Tree and am covered in glitter. Happy Holidays Everyone!
At this point in time, I agree. There are no more plausible scenarios where Tim could get a roster spot this year. It takes a QB 2 or 3 weeks to learn an offense enough to function at bare minimum proficiency. After this weekend, there will only be 3 weeks left in the regular season. We are now in Ryan Lindley territory; for any team who loses a QB, the undrafted rookie on their practice squad will be more attractive than any veteran on the market.
It is mind boggling that the Eagles could be 5-7 and tied for first in their division; if the "team whose name shall not be said" loses tonight, that's exactly where they will be.
IMO it is a forgone conclusion that Pettine is gone. I'm going to chalk Urban's statement up to an obligatory denial, and observe that a giant sack of money might very well pique his interest. If that goes nowhere, there's still the possibility that Josh McD gets his second chance this year.
Finally, there are still the various AFL/CFL options. There are 3 AFL franchises in Florida, all within 90 minutes of Gainesville. Signing Tim would be a license to print money for any of those teams.
Some quick takes from today the good, the bad, the ugly & the not understood:
The Good: 1) Schadenfreude, the Jaguars found a way to lose another game in the 4th qtr. Is there another team that always seems to play as poorly as they do in the 4th qtr.? 2) I loved the double reverse with Brady being the receiver for a long gain for a first down. These are the kinds of plays I was referring to in a previous commentary if a team had the Athleticism that a team with Tebow, Manziel & Jones could potentially have.
The Bad: The Browns were just awful today. Haslam may need to up the ante if he wants to lure Urban away from Ohio State & even then it might not be enough. :)
The Ugly: The Pats/Eagles game. The Eagles were still themselves today too many penalties & an impotent offense. Although Bradford made a key 4th down throw to seal the victory. Their deficiencies were masked by a couple of special team plays & some mysterious calls by the Pats.
The misunderstood: 1) The onsides kick by the Pats when they were ahead 14 to 0 seemingly ready to take control of the game. The Eagles recovered it & got momentum & confidence as a result. 2) Pats choosing to punt with .15 seconds left on the clock at the end of the first half. I thought for sure Brady would take a knee & they would go into the locker room ahead 14 to 7. Instead the punt was blocked & run in for a touchdown. (Dang that sucked). 3) The decision to onsides kick for the 2nd time with 3 minutes left on the clock. The Eagles recovered with good field position.
No doubt everyone has bad days & the Pats are certainly entitled to them but dang I wish they would have waited until next week. :)
They really miss Gronk, & Edelman. They will be fine when they get them back.
As I've said before, all of you are welcome to use any topic for any sort of discussion you would like. My only rules are no personal insults and no politics, though I may consider an exception for Trump mockery. :)
From the little I have read of Peyton Manning, it seems fairly bogus. The supposed source says that he just made up some famous names to jerk around Al Jazeera. Though I admit I gave the coverage only the briefest of cursory skimmings, so I could be wildly misinformed.
If a physician prescribed HGH as a legitimate treatment to help him recover from neck surgery, I would have zero problem with that. Getting vertebrae fused is serious surgery, and attempting to play contact sports afterwards is borderline insane.
Mainly, I'm just glad they lost. There's no rationale in that, just pure mean-spirited revenge for how shitty Chip treated Tim when he cut him. I was glad to see him disappointed. Been waiting all season for that.
Beyond that, I really don't care about the Eagles. Don't see Chip going back to the Tebow well again, so I'm done following that team and that coach, barring some unforseen game changer of course.
The crying shame of it is, Chip steadfastly refuses to accept the essential nature of his own offense. It simply won't work consistently without a mobile QB. Without a read option threat, the defensive ends can crash the line and close the interior gaps before the RB can hit the hole from the pistol formation. If the RB can't consistently get through, then the linebackers can drop in coverage underneath and the safeties can sit back and protect against the deep threat.
If he accepted that he is what he is, then he could grab 3 mobile QBs next season and tear the league apart. Play Tim Tebow, RGIII, and Kapernick in whatever order you want; the league wouldn't know what do do with that.
So when I said there would be a lot of head coach openings next week, I wasn't counting the Eagles. Yikes. And they were utterly merciless about it. Even if Chip does get another shot, the shine is most definitely off that bloom. He'll be "on the clock" from day one.
If Tim does get another chance to try out for 3rd string, it will have to be a coach who is connected to him personally, and thus motivated to overlook the media attention he brings.
I'm not going to rule Urban out yet, but even if that pipe dream fails, there are two more prospects who are frequently mentioned at the top of the list this year: Josh McDaniels (again) and Adam Gase.
There could be as many as 8 head coach openings next week ... 1 in every 4 teams: LIST
In the Urban Meyer pipe dream department, Cardale Jones just announced he will enter the NFL draft this year, and right now the Browns are tied for the #1 or the #2 pick in the draft.
Urban said again today that he is not interested in the NFL. He also said that a team contacted him and he told them he was not interested.
The obvious conclusion is to take him at his word. However, I'm not going to accept his denials as definitive until after both the OSU bowl game and black Monday are over.
While we wait to see if Urban does go to the NFL. I found some of his comments to be quite interesting.
He said recent events may have changed his view of the NFL & in turn the NFL's view of him. Referring to recent firings of Chip Kelly & Greg Schiano whom he considers friends. The interesting part is in the same sentence he says Pete Carroll has done well.
What I found very interesting was his observation that it is not only college coaches who struggle in the NFL.
Would it be reading too much into this to think he is at least intrigued about going to the NFL?
There have been 7 head coach firings in each of the last 3 years. This year there could be as many as 10. I'm guessing the final number is 8.
We'll know soon enough if Urban's denials are sincere. In the meantime, note one very interesting storyline: Ohio State is facing a mass exodus of players. 5 top OSU underclassmen have have now declared early for the draft, with more expected.
Not sure if those losses make Urban more or less likely to entertain an NFL opportunity. I doubt he relishes going into a rebuilding phase so soon.
It's also worth pondering whether those players suspect Urban will bail on them.
Another update. Haslam has promoted Sashi Brown to Executive VP Football Operations. He will have final say on roster. New GM will report to him. However they will hire s new HC before hiring a new GM.
According to her team sources QB Justin Gilbert to coaches he wouldn't go in the game today.
Whoever takes this job will have alot of work to do. We have seen examples namely (Denver in 2011) of how fast things can get turned around with the right leadership.
This black Monday is shaping up to be more interesting than usual.
Openings so far: PHI, MIA, TEN, SF, CLE
Prossible tomorrow: NYG, IND, SD, DET
Unlikely: NO, STL, DAL
There have been 7 openings in each of the last 3 years. We are at 5 openings already, and black monday is not even here yet. I'm betting there will be at least 7 openings, and possibly as many as 9 or 10. There is going to be a mad scramble for coaching talent.
Names that might create a receptive situation for Tim: Adam Gase, Josh McDaniels, Urban Meyer
"Banner appeared on SportsCenter shortly after the hiring was announced and said conflict could follow if the Browns go all-in on analytics and hire a traditional coach. If the Browns are emphasizing analytics to the extreme, they at least will have to find someone who buys into the thinking. If it is one tool in personnel assessment, they will have to find someone who at least believes in it."
The chief proponent of analytics in the NFL is Chip Kelly. So it could signal they are going to grab him. As much as I hate to see him get another shot, it wouldn't be the worst move the Browns could make. There is a long history of NFL coaches being more successful in their second attempt. Notable examples include Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll. Maybe Haslam got ideas from watching the super bowl last year.
Now if you really want to put your tin foil hat on, another coach known for his receptivity to analytics is ... Urban Meyer.
Not a hint of activity on Urban Meyer to the Browns. I know it ain't gonna happen, but I'm not closing the books until the position is filled.
However, Adam Gase IS interviewing with the Browns tomorrow. The Browns are probably starting from scratch at QB next year. Manziel is in the process of self-destructing, while Josh McCown is 37 and spent half the season injured. They'll probably draft a QB in the first round.
Also, Josh McDaniels has let it be known that he is interested in the Titans job. Less opportunity there, with Mariotta in place and Mecklenberger presumably staying too, but who knows.
Gase is pretty much a shoo-in for a head coaching job. He has already interviewed with the Browns, Eagles, and Dolphins. He has a second interview with the Eagles this weekend, and is rumored to have a Giants interview in the works.
If anyone finds anything where Gase comments on Tim's potential post-Broncos, that would be interesting to post.
I'm all for Gase getting his opportunity. It's good to see new young coaches on the rise. Tim's getting a chance with him would probably depend on which team he goes to & what the quarterback situation is on that team.
3 questions I would have.
1) Would Tim have more of a chance if Gase was coaching a team with an established quarterback or a team in need of one??
2) Would Gase have the clout as a first time head coach to bring Tim in even if he wanted to??
3) If he did have the clout would he have the willingness as a first year coach to do what no other coaches have done for the last 3 years & bring Tim in for a real opportunity?
1) I think an established quarterback rules out a shot for Tim. The 'circus' factor is universal regardless of coach, scheme, etc.
2) I think so, but does he want to?
3) There are a quite a few Gase quotes in this 2011 article that are positive on numerous aspects of Tim's preparation, composure, knowledge and improvement; along with an observation on his mechanical issues involving his feet. No doubt Tim has worked with this coach more than any other in the NFL, and probably more than any coach in his life other than Urban Meyer and, in that general wheelhouse, Tom House; so there's no doubt he personally likes the guy and wouldn't mind him on his team in that regard.
How he feels about Tim as a prospect, however, is another question. Yes he was publicly supportive of Tim the Bronco, as would be expected; but keep in mind that so was John Fox, who in later years went on to throw Tim under the bus even if only in fairly obscure quotes that nevertheless revealed a departure from the attitude than he gave to the media in 2011. And remember, guys like Mark Schlereth and Shannon Sharpe formed their negative opinions of Tim in part on the basis of what Broncos coaches were privately telling them. So while Gase's complimentary take on Tim in this article is a positive, we don't know if that public opinion was entirely honest, and if it was if it still holds today. Time has damaged Tim's reputation far more than performance, and rewritten history in the minds of many.
With that said, it's not impossible that Gase could be intrigued by the improvements Tim has made on his own, and out of curiosity if nothing else would like to see what he can do with him in camp. If that's the case, whether he indulges that curiosity or not would largely depend on the organization and personnel with which he signs.
One more point is that the coach is not usually the guy who makes signing decisions. If the GM is not receptive to the idea, the HC probably is not going to push it. And if the scouts and personnel director are not in favor, they can easily skew the analysis in opposition.
The only thing we know for sure is that Gase has sufficient personal familiarity with Tim that he would make a decision based on Tim's actual strengths and weaknesses, as opposed to what people say on TV.
2) He has a strong alley in the front office in Mike Tannenbaum who through the whole fiasco in New York & thereafter has always spoken highly of Tim going so far as to saying, he would never bet against Tim Tebow.
3) A pissed off fan base who are fed up & starved for some winning football.
4) A hungry front office who also is tired of losing & would be willing to do whatever it took to turn their team around.
They still may think of Tannehill as their QB of the future & are willing to go the extra mile with him in an effort to prove it but his hold on that status might be shaky enough not to preclude them from kicking the tires with Tim.
Gase is clearly the belle of the ball. He has been mentioned for almost every opening, and interviewed with 4 teams. Given that, a 2nd interview may not mean Miami is a done deal. I could easily see a bidding war for him.
Having said that, let's assume it is Miami.
Pros: Tim Tebow in Florida is a license to print money.
Cons: Tannehill is the worst scenario ... a shaky QB that the team has recently invested big money in. Mark Sanchez and the Jets all over again. And with Tim playing in Florida, you would be able to hear the Tebow chants all the way in Denver.
So, unless they want to bring in Tim deliberately to light a fire under Tannehill's ass, I'd say this is a bad outcome.
Agreed. Tannehill isn't necessarily a deal killer but Tannenbaum is. With him it's one of those cases you have to take his public comments with a large grain of salt. Just because he's refrained from being an a-hole post-Tebow doesn't mean he wants anything to do with him moving forward. And given the media credits his hiring of Tebow as the chief cause of his getting canned by the Jets, the media would equally swarm to this redux scenario. Circus 2.0 Turbo-charged.
Urban Meyer isn't going anywhere, and while it's tempting to reunite Tim with McDaniels I feel the ship has sailed on that marriage. McDaniels already gave him another shot and is highly unlikely to expose himself once again early in his own second shot as a head coach. At the same time I readily acknowledge that it's just as unlikely that Tim will try to resuscitate his career in the CFL or Arena. At this point any speculation toward any of these scenarios is an exercise in masochism.
Looks like Gase will have final say over the roster. I don't know what that will mean concerning Tim. It does however absolve Tannenbaum of responsibility if he chooses to give him a look.
Lets remember last year Chip came out of nowhere & signed Tim to the roster even though Sanchez was there.
Until Tim says it's over I will not necessarily remain optimistic but I will remain hopeful something good will happen. Tim is not a quitter & neither will I be.
Interesting that they gave Gase final say over the roster. Using a little reasoning it seems that might be the carrot that gave Miami the advantage. Up until a few days ago it was rumored that he'd been leaning toward the Eagles, and we know after the Chip Kelly experience they weren't about to hand the keys to the roster over to their next head coach. I wonder if he expressly requested roster control or if Miami just offered it up as an added bonus to sway him.
That's an interesting question to ponder. Regardless of whether he asked for control or if it was offered to him. He finds himself in the same situation that Chip Kelly did. Try to get something out of a traditional quarterback who has so far not met expectations.
Question is did he want the job knowing Tannehill would be his guy or does he have his own ideas in mind as to what he wants to do.
Has he made any public comments since taking the job that would shed some light on his thinking??
Yes he knows they want him to get Tannehill back on track and has indicated he intends to work with him. Holding out hope that he'll invite TT to camp is really just a prelude to disappointment.
What a weird and ugly game. This first round has been brutal thus far.
Re Tebow and Gase in MIA thing, the dumping all bad Tannehill has done on Philbin has already begun, and a mission to get him back on track is already in motion. There is NO WAY TT gets near the parking lot there, let alone a tryout.
Coaching slate almost closed out. All that remains is Tennessee. Some rumors of JMD going there. Not much encouraging news for Tim there or anywhere else. But let's run the table:
Cincy, Philly, NYG, Tampa: no chance in hell
Miami: slim
Tenn: slim if JMD, none otherwise
49ers: bizarrely, this might be marginally possible.
I thought the same thing about San Fran. how bizzare would that be. The list didn't include Cleveland or Houston.
I suppose we could call Cleveland slim like the rest though it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to take a look.
I wouldn't even mention Houston. If they had not finished the season the way they did. They have had 2 seasons to take a look & haven't done it. The way they ended their season though means changes are probably coming.
Sorry, I meant to say Cleveland, not Cincy. I limited the list to those teams with new head coaches.
Tennessee and San Fran both have dual threat QB's, and presumably will have offensive systems that take advantage of mobile quarterbacks. Tennessee is fully invested in the success of Mariota, so I doubt they would bring in a destabilizing influence like Tim, unless a coach who loved him really pushed it.
San Fran benched Kaepernick last year in favor of Blaine Gabbert, so I doubt they are committed to or invested in him any more. The big unknown is what Kelly really thinks of Tim. He cut him, so I assume he's not a big fan, but we can't rule out the possibility that others within the organization were pushing for it, or even that Bradford and Sanchez were the ones with the problem.
Do I think those are likely? Nope. Tim is screwed. Why am I still doing this? Force of habit, I guess.
I haven't mentioned this before because it fell into the category of I want to see it before I believe it. Since all the other prospects look bleak at this time I will mention it now.
Tim has an offer on the table in a new startup league that is set to begin playing this fall. The team is called the Florida Black Bears. Supposedly the monetary offer is comparable to what quarterbacks in the NFL receive. It also has some incentives for his foundation.
I don't know if this will ever materialize, I had some faith that the A1A league from a couple of years ago might have been a possibility but that league never got off the ground.
I got this information from twitter handle called rblsports.
BOOOOOOOOM!!!!
ReplyDeleteWHAT????
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT????
HOOOOOLEEEEEEE SHEEEEEEEEET!!!!
ReplyDeleteBig if true.
No wonder Tim believes in miracles. This does change the calculus, I have no problem admitting that. It's the one and only scenario that could possibly, theoretically have some plausibility; and obviously one that I certainly failed to consider. Who knew Urban was even entertaining the NFL anyway? Or that he'd been on the Browns radar for so long? That said I would plea to be mindful that there are obstacles. Urban may decide to stay at Ohio State. Haslam and/or Farmer may consider Tim a deal killer. Urban may think not having Tim is a deal killer, but he also might not. The Browns might want him to try to get something out of their investment in Manziel, instead. And Tim would be gracious about that.
ReplyDeleteBut back to the positive... Urban has said as recently as this season that if he were a coach in the NFL he would sign Tebow in a heartbeat (or something along those enthusiastic lines). The Front Office in Cleveland must certainly know that. They also know that Urban's not an NFL coach. Installing his offense would require adjustments up and down the roster, not just at quarterback.
If they're serious about this then it's not just about signing a new head coach. It's about blowing the shit out of everything and starting over again.
If Cleveland signs Urban Meyer they're going nuclear, my friends.
Indeed, Kathryn. Indeed. As if Tim knew all along something like that is in the cooks. Did I say that right!? :)
ReplyDeleteI had heard of this rumor for several months floating around, I never gave it much credence thinking it was just wishful thinking from Tim's supporters.
ReplyDeleteThis story seems to have merit so since we are at it I have also heard Miami is also interested in Urban. If nothing else it would give him some negotiating leverage should he want it. Although with this contract being unprecendented as it is he probably won't need that leverage.
Urban & Tim together in the pros would be a marketers dream. I sure hope the deal goes through so Tim will get his rightful opportunity to play (hopefully start) & to irritate all the naysayers we have had to listen to for the last few years ;).
We all realize this is total rumor and entirely unconfirmed. With that disclaimer out of the way, it does pass the giggle test, for a couple of reasons:
ReplyDelete1. Haslam seems like the kind of guy who is not afraid of a big, bold move. As Kathryn observes, this wouldbe as bold as they get.
2. Meyer is a son of Ohio. Born, raised, and played HS and college football there. Having salvaged the historically great Ohio State program, I doubt he could resist the lure of restoring the Browns.
I don't think Urban would necessarily go all in with Tim as the starter. However, I absolutely think he would give him a fair shot to make the roster as the backup. There is a strong pattern of NFL coaches picking backup QBs who they know and are comfortable with, and there are good reasons for that. The backup gets very few practice reps, and the coach has to trust his diligence and work ethic to always be focused and prepared to come in with no notice.
Urban is the leading practitioner of the spread offense, and would almost certainly implement some version of it. He'll need a mobile QB to do that, and since mobile QBs get hurt in the NFL he'll need several. I could see him drafting Cardale Jones, keeping Johnny F, and signing Tim, and letting the pecking order sort itself out in the preseason.
Fun to think about. Let's all cross our fingers that there is something to it. With luck, Haslam leaked it to see if Urban rules it out. Silence on both sides would speak volumes.
Urban
I totally agree with your comments about the quarterback pecking order. Tim should expect to get a fair shot to make the roster & not necessarily walk straight into the starters job although he could possibly earn it in the preseason.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I would add is if Tim is not the starter initially I think Urban would would try to find ways to get him on the field. Jones,Manziel,&Tebow would be a great mix of athleticism.
Unmatched anywhere
Something like Tim's freshman year at Florida. Short yardage battering ram while Chris Leak ran the core offense.
DeleteI can see that being a possibility with a bit of a more expanded role in the base offense at times to try & create mismatches & constantly give defenses different looks. 2 pointt conversions also.
ReplyDeleteWell, this is discouraging, though I suppose what else could he say?
ReplyDeletehttp://collegespun.com/big-ten/ohio-state/urban-meyer-releases-statement-after-cleveland-browns-rumors
In other news my prediction that the Pats would murder Philly this weekend pretty much just blew up. SMH New England. Can't count on nuthin' and no one in this game...boooo!
ReplyDelete:-D
As an aside, I just want to say that I have never stopped agreeing with all of you that it's a disgrace and an abomination that dudes like Jimmy Clausen keep getting opportunities where Tim is shut out...as we have just witnessed this afternoon...ahem, again... It's just that I don't see any more scenarios where these coaches and teams would concede as much (Insert Urban Meyer Desperate Fantasy Caveat Here: which incidentally I plan on riding until the Browns hire a new coach not named Urban Meyer).
DeleteIn other, other news I just finished decorating my office Christmas Tree and am covered in glitter. Happy Holidays Everyone!
At this point in time, I agree. There are no more plausible scenarios where Tim could get a roster spot this year. It takes a QB 2 or 3 weeks to learn an offense enough to function at bare minimum proficiency. After this weekend, there will only be 3 weeks left in the regular season. We are now in Ryan Lindley territory; for any team who loses a QB, the undrafted rookie on their practice squad will be more attractive than any veteran on the market.
DeleteIt is mind boggling that the Eagles could be 5-7 and tied for first in their division; if the "team whose name shall not be said" loses tonight, that's exactly where they will be.
IMO it is a forgone conclusion that Pettine is gone. I'm going to chalk Urban's statement up to an obligatory denial, and observe that a giant sack of money might very well pique his interest. If that goes nowhere, there's still the possibility that Josh McD gets his second chance this year.
Finally, there are still the various AFL/CFL options. There are 3 AFL franchises in Florida, all within 90 minutes of Gainesville. Signing Tim would be a license to print money for any of those teams.
Some quick takes from today the good, the bad, the ugly & the not understood:
ReplyDeleteThe Good: 1) Schadenfreude, the Jaguars found a way to lose another game in the 4th qtr. Is there another team that always seems to play as poorly as they do in the 4th qtr.? 2) I loved the double reverse with Brady being the receiver for a long gain for a first down. These are the kinds of plays I was referring to in a previous commentary if a team had the Athleticism that a team with Tebow, Manziel & Jones could potentially have.
The Bad: The Browns were just awful today. Haslam may need to up the ante if he wants to lure Urban away from Ohio State & even then it might not be enough. :)
The Ugly: The Pats/Eagles game. The Eagles were still themselves today too many penalties & an impotent offense. Although Bradford made a key 4th down throw to seal the victory. Their deficiencies were masked by a couple of special team plays & some mysterious calls by the Pats.
The misunderstood: 1) The onsides kick by the Pats when they were ahead 14 to 0 seemingly ready to take control of the game. The Eagles recovered it & got momentum & confidence as a result. 2) Pats choosing to punt with .15 seconds left on the clock at the end of the first half. I thought for sure Brady would take a knee & they would go into the locker room ahead 14 to 7. Instead the punt was blocked & run in for a touchdown. (Dang that sucked). 3) The decision to onsides kick for the 2nd time with 3 minutes left on the clock. The Eagles recovered with good field position.
No doubt everyone has bad days & the Pats are certainly entitled to them but dang I wish they would have waited until next week. :)
They really miss Gronk, & Edelman. They will be fine when they get them back.
One bit of Shadenfreude and possible opportunity: there are a LOT of coaches headed for a firing this year:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.si.com/nfl/2015/12/14/nfl-coaching-hot-seat-mike-mularky-tom-coughlin-chip-kelly
I'll use this as a miscellaneous conversation, if Ed doesn't mind...
ReplyDeleteWhat do you guys think of the Peyton Manning doping charge?
As I've said before, all of you are welcome to use any topic for any sort of discussion you would like. My only rules are no personal insults and no politics, though I may consider an exception for Trump mockery. :)
DeleteFrom the little I have read of Peyton Manning, it seems fairly bogus. The supposed source says that he just made up some famous names to jerk around Al Jazeera. Though I admit I gave the coverage only the briefest of cursory skimmings, so I could be wildly misinformed.
If a physician prescribed HGH as a legitimate treatment to help him recover from neck surgery, I would have zero problem with that. Getting vertebrae fused is serious surgery, and attempting to play contact sports afterwards is borderline insane.
Does anyone have any thoughts they would like to share about the Eagles game last night. Or their season. Or what they might do going forward??
ReplyDeleteMainly, I'm just glad they lost. There's no rationale in that, just pure mean-spirited revenge for how shitty Chip treated Tim when he cut him. I was glad to see him disappointed. Been waiting all season for that.
DeleteBeyond that, I really don't care about the Eagles. Don't see Chip going back to the Tebow well again, so I'm done following that team and that coach, barring some unforseen game changer of course.
The crying shame of it is, Chip steadfastly refuses to accept the essential nature of his own offense. It simply won't work consistently without a mobile QB. Without a read option threat, the defensive ends can crash the line and close the interior gaps before the RB can hit the hole from the pistol formation. If the RB can't consistently get through, then the linebackers can drop in coverage underneath and the safeties can sit back and protect against the deep threat.
If he accepted that he is what he is, then he could grab 3 mobile QBs next season and tear the league apart. Play Tim Tebow, RGIII, and Kapernick in whatever order you want; the league wouldn't know what do do with that.
I like that idea alot. Wasn't it General MacArthur who said "you are remembered for the rules you break"
DeleteDoing that would require breaking alot of unwritten rules on how the game is supposed to be played.
Imagine the excitement that would create. It sure beats the long miserable season they just endured.
So when I said there would be a lot of head coach openings next week, I wasn't counting the Eagles. Yikes. And they were utterly merciless about it. Even if Chip does get another shot, the shine is most definitely off that bloom. He'll be "on the clock" from day one.
ReplyDeleteIf Tim does get another chance to try out for 3rd string, it will have to be a coach who is connected to him personally, and thus motivated to overlook the media attention he brings.
I'm not going to rule Urban out yet, but even if that pipe dream fails, there are two more prospects who are frequently mentioned at the top of the list this year: Josh McDaniels (again) and Adam Gase.
There could be as many as 8 head coach openings next week ... 1 in every 4 teams: LIST
DeleteIn the Urban Meyer pipe dream department, Cardale Jones just announced he will enter the NFL draft this year, and right now the Browns are tied for the #1 or the #2 pick in the draft.
Urban said again today that he is not interested in the NFL. He also said that a team contacted him and he told them he was not interested.
ReplyDeleteThe obvious conclusion is to take him at his word. However, I'm not going to accept his denials as definitive until after both the OSU bowl game and black Monday are over.
While we wait to see if Urban does go to the NFL. I found some of his comments to be quite interesting.
DeleteHe said recent events may have changed his view of the NFL & in turn the NFL's view of him. Referring to recent firings of Chip Kelly & Greg Schiano whom he considers friends. The interesting part is in the same sentence he says Pete Carroll has done well.
What I found very interesting was his observation that it is not only college coaches who struggle in the NFL.
Would it be reading too much into this to think he is at least intrigued about going to the NFL?
I'm sure he is intrigued. Just a question of what his goals are.
DeleteHe has to say he is not interested. Anything else destroys his recruiting effectiveness.
I'm sure he is intrigued. Just a question of what his goals are.
DeleteHe has to say he is not interested. Anything else destroys his recruiting effectiveness.
There have been 7 head coach firings in each of the last 3 years. This year there could be as many as 10. I'm guessing the final number is 8.
ReplyDeleteWe'll know soon enough if Urban's denials are sincere. In the meantime, note one very interesting storyline: Ohio State is facing a mass exodus of players. 5 top OSU underclassmen have have now declared early for the draft, with more expected.
Not sure if those losses make Urban more or less likely to entertain an NFL opportunity. I doubt he relishes going into a rebuilding phase so soon.
It's also worth pondering whether those players suspect Urban will bail on them.
Well, that did not take long: Browns Fire Pettine and Farmer
DeleteTangentially, wow. Manziel.
Deletehttps://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/683815197123985408
Another update. Haslam has promoted Sashi Brown to Executive VP Football Operations. He will have final say on roster. New GM will report to him. However they will hire s new HC before hiring a new GM.
DeleteCheck out this tweet from @LaurenBrill5
DeleteAccording to her team sources QB Justin Gilbert to coaches he wouldn't go in the game today.
Whoever takes this job will have alot of work to do. We have seen examples namely (Denver in 2011) of how fast things can get turned around with the right leadership.
Wow reading her timeline it's clear that whole organization is s dumpster fire.
DeleteAnd more on Manziel. Showed up drunk to practice this week.
https://twitter.com/complexmag/status/683816810832113664
This black Monday is shaping up to be more interesting than usual.
ReplyDeleteOpenings so far: PHI, MIA, TEN, SF, CLE
Prossible tomorrow: NYG, IND, SD, DET
Unlikely: NO, STL, DAL
There have been 7 openings in each of the last 3 years. We are at 5 openings already, and black monday is not even here yet. I'm betting there will be at least 7 openings, and possibly as many as 9 or 10. There is going to be a mad scramble for coaching talent.
Names that might create a receptive situation for Tim: Adam Gase, Josh McDaniels, Urban Meyer
Final body count will be between 6 and 8.
DeleteOpenings: PHI, MIA, TEN, SF, CLE, NY
TBD: IND, NO (by trade)
Of those, only 3 have unsettled QB situations: CLE, PHI, SF
Urban Meyer Pipe Dream Update: This article would suggest Meyer's not going anywhere.
ReplyDeletehttp://bleacherreport.com/articles/2604752-2016-will-be-a-reload-not-a-rebuild-for-ohio-state-and-urban-meyer
It does, but I'm still going to hold my breath until the Cleveland job is filled.
DeleteThis article about the Browns and analytics is interesting.
ReplyDeletehttp://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/17513/paul-depodesta-takes-browns-from-draft-day-to-moneyball
"Banner appeared on SportsCenter shortly after the hiring was announced and said conflict could follow if the Browns go all-in on analytics and hire a traditional coach. If the Browns are emphasizing analytics to the extreme, they at least will have to find someone who buys into the thinking. If it is one tool in personnel assessment, they will have to find someone who at least believes in it."
The chief proponent of analytics in the NFL is Chip Kelly. So it could signal they are going to grab him. As much as I hate to see him get another shot, it wouldn't be the worst move the Browns could make. There is a long history of NFL coaches being more successful in their second attempt. Notable examples include Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll. Maybe Haslam got ideas from watching the super bowl last year.
Now if you really want to put your tin foil hat on, another coach known for his receptivity to analytics is ... Urban Meyer.
Not a hint of activity on Urban Meyer to the Browns. I know it ain't gonna happen, but I'm not closing the books until the position is filled.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Adam Gase IS interviewing with the Browns tomorrow. The Browns are probably starting from scratch at QB next year. Manziel is in the process of self-destructing, while Josh McCown is 37 and spent half the season injured. They'll probably draft a QB in the first round.
Also, Josh McDaniels has let it be known that he is interested in the Titans job. Less opportunity there, with Mariotta in place and Mecklenberger presumably staying too, but who knows.
Gase is pretty much a shoo-in for a head coaching job. He has already interviewed with the Browns, Eagles, and Dolphins. He has a second interview with the Eagles this weekend, and is rumored to have a Giants interview in the works.
DeleteIf anyone finds anything where Gase comments on Tim's potential post-Broncos, that would be interesting to post.
I'm all for Gase getting his opportunity. It's good to see new young coaches on the rise. Tim's getting a chance with him would probably depend on which team he goes to & what the quarterback situation is on that team.
Delete3 questions I would have.
1) Would Tim have more of a chance if Gase was coaching a team with an established quarterback or a team in need of one??
2) Would Gase have the clout as a first time head coach to bring Tim in even if he wanted to??
3) If he did have the clout would he have the willingness as a first year coach to do what no other coaches have done for the last 3 years & bring Tim in for a real opportunity?
1) I think an established quarterback rules out a shot for Tim. The 'circus' factor is universal regardless of coach, scheme, etc.
Delete2) I think so, but does he want to?
3) There are a quite a few Gase quotes in this 2011 article that are positive on numerous aspects of Tim's preparation, composure, knowledge and improvement; along with an observation on his mechanical issues involving his feet. No doubt Tim has worked with this coach more than any other in the NFL, and probably more than any coach in his life other than Urban Meyer and, in that general wheelhouse, Tom House; so there's no doubt he personally likes the guy and wouldn't mind him on his team in that regard.
How he feels about Tim as a prospect, however, is another question. Yes he was publicly supportive of Tim the Bronco, as would be expected; but keep in mind that so was John Fox, who in later years went on to throw Tim under the bus even if only in fairly obscure quotes that nevertheless revealed a departure from the attitude than he gave to the media in 2011. And remember, guys like Mark Schlereth and Shannon Sharpe formed their negative opinions of Tim in part on the basis of what Broncos coaches were privately telling them. So while Gase's complimentary take on Tim in this article is a positive, we don't know if that public opinion was entirely honest, and if it was if it still holds today. Time has damaged Tim's reputation far more than performance, and rewritten history in the minds of many.
With that said, it's not impossible that Gase could be intrigued by the improvements Tim has made on his own, and out of curiosity if nothing else would like to see what he can do with him in camp. If that's the case, whether he indulges that curiosity or not would largely depend on the organization and personnel with which he signs.
Article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/debunking-myths-tim-tebow-045800315--nfl.html
ITA with your analysis, Kathryn.
DeleteOne more point is that the coach is not usually the guy who makes signing decisions. If the GM is not receptive to the idea, the HC probably is not going to push it. And if the scouts and personnel director are not in favor, they can easily skew the analysis in opposition.
The only thing we know for sure is that Gase has sufficient personal familiarity with Tim that he would make a decision based on Tim's actual strengths and weaknesses, as opposed to what people say on TV.
Thoughts?
Deletehttp://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2016/01/adam-gase-gets-second-interview-en-route-to-hiring.html
It might be good for Tim if Gase lands in Miami.
Delete1) His connection to Florida.
2) He has a strong alley in the front office in Mike Tannenbaum who through the whole fiasco in New York & thereafter has always spoken highly of Tim going so far as to saying, he would never bet against Tim Tebow.
3) A pissed off fan base who are fed up & starved for some winning football.
4) A hungry front office who also is tired of losing & would be willing to do whatever it took to turn their team around.
They still may think of Tannehill as their QB of the future & are willing to go the extra mile with him in an effort to prove it but his hold on that status might be shaky enough not to preclude them from kicking the tires with Tim.
Agree or disagree?
Gase is clearly the belle of the ball. He has been mentioned for almost every opening, and interviewed with 4 teams. Given that, a 2nd interview may not mean Miami is a done deal. I could easily see a bidding war for him.
DeleteHaving said that, let's assume it is Miami.
Pros: Tim Tebow in Florida is a license to print money.
Cons: Tannehill is the worst scenario ... a shaky QB that the team has recently invested big money in. Mark Sanchez and the Jets all over again. And with Tim playing in Florida, you would be able to hear the Tebow chants all the way in Denver.
So, unless they want to bring in Tim deliberately to light a fire under Tannehill's ass, I'd say this is a bad outcome.
Agreed. Tannehill isn't necessarily a deal killer but Tannenbaum is. With him it's one of those cases you have to take his public comments with a large grain of salt. Just because he's refrained from being an a-hole post-Tebow doesn't mean he wants anything to do with him moving forward. And given the media credits his hiring of Tebow as the chief cause of his getting canned by the Jets, the media would equally swarm to this redux scenario. Circus 2.0 Turbo-charged.
DeleteHere's a nugget with leverage speculation along the line of Ed's.
Deletehttps://twitter.com/mattchastain_/status/685671698520080385
Which team would you like to see him end up going to?
DeleteThe only team that has openly courted him for the last two years: the Montreal Alouettes.
DeleteAs to the NFL I can't say. I'd imagine at this point there'd be a deal-killing factor with every team.
Miami it is. About the only silver lining to that news is that it does not preclude Urban Meyer or Josh McDaniels from going to Cleveland.
ReplyDeleteUrban Meyer isn't going anywhere, and while it's tempting to reunite Tim with McDaniels I feel the ship has sailed on that marriage. McDaniels already gave him another shot and is highly unlikely to expose himself once again early in his own second shot as a head coach. At the same time I readily acknowledge that it's just as unlikely that Tim will try to resuscitate his career in the CFL or Arena. At this point any speculation toward any of these scenarios is an exercise in masochism.
DeleteLol Ed: I share the frustration.
DeleteLets see how it all plays out.
Looks like Gase will have final say over the roster. I don't know what that will mean concerning Tim. It does however absolve Tannenbaum of responsibility if he chooses to give him a look.
DeleteLets remember last year Chip came out of nowhere & signed Tim to the roster even though Sanchez was there.
Until Tim says it's over I will not necessarily remain optimistic but I will remain hopeful something good will happen. Tim is not a quitter & neither will I be.
Interesting that they gave Gase final say over the roster. Using a little reasoning it seems that might be the carrot that gave Miami the advantage. Up until a few days ago it was rumored that he'd been leaning toward the Eagles, and we know after the Chip Kelly experience they weren't about to hand the keys to the roster over to their next head coach. I wonder if he expressly requested roster control or if Miami just offered it up as an added bonus to sway him.
DeleteThat's an interesting question to ponder. Regardless of whether he asked for control or if it was offered to him. He finds himself in the same situation that Chip Kelly did. Try to get something out of a traditional quarterback who has so far not met expectations.
DeleteQuestion is did he want the job knowing Tannehill would be his guy or does he have his own ideas in mind as to what he wants to do.
Has he made any public comments since taking the job that would shed some light on his thinking??
Yes he knows they want him to get Tannehill back on track and has indicated he intends to work with him. Holding out hope that he'll invite TT to camp is really just a prelude to disappointment.
DeleteBill Simmons with some nice comments about Tebow on his latest podcast (starts at 15:00)...
ReplyDeletehttps://soundcloud.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/ep-47-friday-rollin-w-joe-house
Thanks, brief but always nice to have someone in the mainstream shaking their head along with us.
DeleteCheck out this article in the sporting news entitled. Adam Gase might be the Dolphins future, but Ryan Tannehill certainly isn't.
Deletesportingnews.com/nfl-news/46906
Well AJ sure tried to pull a Tebow on the Steelers, didn't he? Good effort.
ReplyDeleteWhat a weird and ugly game. This first round has been brutal thus far.
DeleteRe Tebow and Gase in MIA thing, the dumping all bad Tannehill has done on Philbin has already begun, and a mission to get him back on track is already in motion. There is NO WAY TT gets near the parking lot there, let alone a tryout.
Well, guess we can officially close the books on the Urban Meyer fantasy now.
ReplyDeleteCoaching slate almost closed out. All that remains is Tennessee. Some rumors of JMD going there. Not much encouraging news for Tim there or anywhere else. But let's run the table:
ReplyDeleteCincy, Philly, NYG, Tampa: no chance in hell
Miami: slim
Tenn: slim if JMD, none otherwise
49ers: bizarrely, this might be marginally possible.
I thought the same thing about San Fran. how bizzare would that be. The list didn't include Cleveland or Houston.
DeleteI suppose we could call Cleveland slim like the rest though it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to take a look.
I wouldn't even mention Houston. If they had not finished the season the way they did. They have had 2 seasons to take a look & haven't done it. The way they ended their season though means changes are probably coming.
Sorry, I meant to say Cleveland, not Cincy. I limited the list to those teams with new head coaches.
DeleteTennessee and San Fran both have dual threat QB's, and presumably will have offensive systems that take advantage of mobile quarterbacks. Tennessee is fully invested in the success of Mariota, so I doubt they would bring in a destabilizing influence like Tim, unless a coach who loved him really pushed it.
San Fran benched Kaepernick last year in favor of Blaine Gabbert, so I doubt they are committed to or invested in him any more. The big unknown is what Kelly really thinks of Tim. He cut him, so I assume he's not a big fan, but we can't rule out the possibility that others within the organization were pushing for it, or even that Bradford and Sanchez were the ones with the problem.
Do I think those are likely? Nope. Tim is screwed. Why am I still doing this? Force of habit, I guess.
Just saw Tennessee hired Mike Mularkey. No HC job for Josh again.
ReplyDeleteI haven't mentioned this before because it fell into the category of I want to see it before I believe it. Since all the other prospects look bleak at this time I will mention it now.
DeleteTim has an offer on the table in a new startup league that is set to begin playing this fall. The team is called the Florida Black Bears. Supposedly the monetary offer is comparable to what quarterbacks in the NFL receive. It also has some incentives for his foundation.
I don't know if this will ever materialize, I had some faith that the A1A league from a couple of years ago might have been a possibility but that league never got off the ground.
I got this information from twitter handle called rblsports.
GO STEELERS! ;)